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Author Topic: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?  (Read 2142 times)

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Offline traveler_101

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What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« on: May 06, 2011, 11:53:41 AM »
Everyone is talking about the forthcoming E-P3 as a "pro" camera, or hoping that it will attain this "level." But what does this really mean? According to a recent post on another site the standard against which m43 must be measured is the fast zoom:


"I am a current M 4/3 (Panasonic G1) user, and I shoot with Canon DSLRs as well.
My favorite Canon lens is 70-200mm f/2.8 - similar lenses exist in all DSLR families, and from Sigma and Tamron.
Of course, it's a huge / heavy lens. 200mm at f/2.8 requires more than 70mm front element diameter, and full-frame imaging circle keep rear element(s) large enough. A 4/3 equivalent would be 35-100mm f/2.8, with half of the imaging circle. Required front element will be 36mm - this lens would be not larger or heavier than Panasonic 45-200mm. Why nobody makes it?
More importantly, does this mean that Panasonic and Olympus see Micro 4/3 as exclusively consumer-grade system, so no fast zooms will be ever made?"



My question is whether the path to becoming a "pro" camera necessarily means following in the footsteps of the DSLR. Is there something new, an as yet undefined quality that might propel m43 or some other alternate system to redefine what "pro" means? I mean 50 years ago "pro" was a Leica M2 with a 35mm lens, right? The SLR and especially the DSLR changed all that. Could it change radically again?
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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 12:33:17 PM »
To me, it not entirely the lens selection, but more on Body Ruggedness with fast processing and great ISO performance to at least ISO 1600 before noise becomes something to deal will with in Post.
"A Pro Photographer" needs these 3 features plus higher grade lenses (More in the build quality over sharpness with some already available lenses).

Things like a medal under chassis, Medal body or at least top and bottom plates of medal. (light weight), internal parts made to a higher fit tolerance with longer lasting and tougher build. (tighter/better fit). External buttons with longer lasting electronic switches and better springs for longer wear....You get the idea...
The Build must be able take bumps and bruises and keep working.
Plus, a fast flash sync for outdoor fill flash at high shutter speeds.
Plus a fast Shutter Speed for wide f/stop shooting out side. (1/8000)

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Offline voyager

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 02:00:59 PM »
Generally things such as weather sealing and a metal chassis help define a camera as being in the "Pro" class. Although the Pentax K10D and the current K-5 have both of these and aren't really called that.
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Offline cosinaphile

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 02:40:18 PM »
Everyone is talking about the forthcoming E-P3 as a "pro" camera, or hoping that it will attain this "level." But what does this really mean? According to a recent post on another site the standard against which m43 must be measured is the fast zoom:


"I am a current M 4/3 (Panasonic G1) user, and I shoot with Canon DSLRs as well.
My favorite Canon lens is 70-200mm f/2.8 - similar lenses exist in all DSLR families, and from Sigma and Tamron.
Of course, it's a huge / heavy lens. 200mm at f/2.8 requires more than 70mm front element diameter, and full-frame imaging circle keep rear element(s) large enough. A 4/3 equivalent would be 35-100mm f/2.8, with half of the imaging circle. Required front element will be 36mm - this lens would be not larger or heavier than Panasonic 45-200mm. Why nobody makes it?
More importantly, does this mean that Panasonic and Olympus see Micro 4/3 as exclusively consumer-grade system, so no fast zooms will be ever made?"
[/b]
My question is whether the path to becoming a "pro" camera necessarily means following in the footsteps of the DSLR. Is there something new, an as yet undefined quality that might propel m43 or some other alternate system to redefine what "pro" means? I mean 50 years ago "pro" was a Leica M2 with a 35mm lens, right? The SLR and especially the DSLR changed all that. Could it change radically again?


exactly  a well posed question, echos many of my feelings on lens s for the mount

Offline cosinaphile

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 02:46:50 PM »
for me
pro means solid build ....high cycle shutter some  seals and lenses to match

and a system flash suitable for serious studio and  outdoor fill- flash work

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 03:03:58 PM »
A "pro" as in "professional" photographer is someone who makes a living out of photography, so a "pro" camera is one that a professional photographer would use, a marketing ploy to get amateurs, those who don't make enough money out of photography for it to be their main or only income, to think that their ability will improve by having the same equipment as a "Pro"
A "pro" camera could be any camera, nothing to do with price or specifications unless you are marketing cameras.

Offline count_zero

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 11:16:21 PM »
I would say any camera that can produce images that satisfies top stock photography sites QC requirements.  The more "pro" the camera the higher the odds are the you might achieve the QC requirements.

http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/digital-camera-images.asp

http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/recommended-digital-cameras.asp

http://www.istockphoto.com/help/sell-stock/training-manuals/photography/image-requirements

Getty Images is probably the most strict from what I gather on forums, but I can't find their latest requirements. 

I think this list is old from Getty.

http://contributors.gettyimages.com/workwithus/article.asp?article_id=1346


« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 11:29:29 PM by count_zero »

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 12:33:26 AM »
That only applies if you are selling to a "stock photography" site
If you are taking pictures of children then it is the parents that you have to satisfy with the image you are selling.

What is a "more pro" camera? A camera is a tool - its selecting the correct tool - and using it correctly that matters.

As an example if you had a blurry picture of the latest stealth helicopter used in the OBL raid you would be able to sell it easily - as there are none. it wouldn't matter what camera / lens  you used the QC wouldn't matter...it would be the ONLY picture.

Offline adash

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 01:54:29 AM »
A Pro camera is one optimized for the ergonomics, environment and image quality required when using it, and NOT for a low price or a specific market segment.
For example E-3/E-5 by Oly are pro cameras as they allow a reportage to be made in the light rain or a wedding to be shot with the photographer thinking only about composition, and not fighting with the menu system.
In the same respect a medium format digital view camera is again a Pro-camera as it is perfectly suited to requirements of stock/fashion/landscape photography, where superior image quality is required and the speed of focusing/setting up the camera is irrelevant.
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Offline tom-ep1

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 02:33:44 AM »

"I am a current M 4/3 (Panasonic G1) user, and I shoot with Canon DSLRs as well.
My favorite Canon lens is 70-200mm f/2.8 - similar lenses exist in all DSLR families, and from Sigma and Tamron.
Of course, it's a huge / heavy lens. 200mm at f/2.8 requires more than 70mm front element diameter, and full-frame imaging circle keep rear element(s) large enough. A 4/3 equivalent would be 35-100mm f/2.8, with half of the imaging circle. Required front element will be 36mm - this lens would be not larger or heavier than Panasonic 45-200mm. Why nobody makes it?
More importantly, does this mean that Panasonic and Olympus see Micro 4/3 as exclusively consumer-grade system, so no fast zooms will be ever made?"




Thats wrong, mFT equiv. would be 52-150mm f2.1 because of smaller sensor (crop 2x against 1,5x). For me "Pro" is starting at 35mm format.
cheers
tom

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 02:37:01 AM »
No, what he means is that would be the focal length of the actual lens if it were made in 4/3 to have the equivalent focal length of 70-200mm.
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Offline adash

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2011, 02:50:54 AM »
Quote
For me "Pro" is starting at 35mm format.
You know, even Medium format was once considered too small for Pro-work. Things have changed gradually since then.
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Offline tom-ep1

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 03:08:49 AM »
No, what he means is that would be the focal length of the actual lens if it were made in 4/3 to have the equivalent focal length of 70-200mm.

My english may not be the best but i think he compares it with a 70-200mm canon lens, not the actual focal length. The aperture would be also worse which almost nobody is aware of.
cheers
tom

Offline JonInKrakow

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 04:10:13 AM »
There are actually several elements that typically go into the concept of "pro" with cameras, ruggedness and durability (a pro camera has to thrive in every sort of condition, and continue in this 12 hours or more a day, non-stop, shooting a thousand frames a day or more). Plus, lens need to match that. Generally, pro-level lens _do_ also have greater light-gathering capabilities, hence the lower f-stop number. Look at Canon's and Nikon's pro line lenses--f/2.8 at 400mm? This also serves to make the lenses huge and unwieldy. This requires massive bodies that can handle the heavy lenses. Also, weather-proofing cannot be forgotten.

And then, there is the way they handle. There tend to be more manual controls, and more discreet controls, rather than depending on nested menus. Oddly, knobs and wheels also tend to require greater effort to move (at least those that would wreak havoc, were they accidentally moved) Their viewfinders are larger, covering 100% of the exposed frame, and they are brighter. Generally, you have to understand photography and the camera in order to get the most out of them. They will not assist you in any way to understand what you are doing (like the art scenes modes or other simple operating modes). I think also, that the viewfinder in a pro camera will give you much more info than you will find in a consumer camera, especially one designed for beginners. A pro camera, however, tends to contain the essentials that allow them to get their job done with the minimal of fuss, while still retaining the maximum of flexibility. That's what they need.

Oddly, some of those things that appeal to pros, and which you see on pro cameras, would make them very undesirable to consumers. That, IMO, is one reason that pro cameras cost more--to keep them out of the hands of people would just complain because of missing "features". ;-)

-Jon

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 08:23:33 AM »
Quote
For me "Pro" is starting at 35mm format.
You know, even Medium format was once considered too small for Pro-work. Things have changed gradually since then.

My Dad used a 4x5 Speed Graphic for Weddings in the 1940's
2 shoots at a time, than change the film holder!
He must of had a messenger type bag to hold 40-60 film holders.
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Offline adash

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2011, 09:45:58 AM »
But the holder had to be reversed even between the two shots, I guess. Now weddings are done exclusively with FF DSLRs, APS-C and 4/3. I don't know if anyone does these in Medium format at all.
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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2011, 11:15:27 AM »
But the holder had to be reversed even between the two shots, I guess. Now weddings are done exclusively with FF DSLRs, APS-C and 4/3. I don't know if anyone does these in Medium format at all.

Correct, you had put the dark slide back, and remove it, reverse it, put it back in the holder clamp, and remove the dark slide for that sheet of film. Part of my camera Inheritance was a 2.25x3.25 Spreed Graphic, but, it was the wrong version (Not the Crown Graphic), to use roll film backs  :(, so I sold it.  :(

It's funny that FF DSLRs are used now, when I did Weddings, I used a 35mm AF Canon 630 (5fps), with a 21-35 AT-X Tokina f/2.8, and a Canon EF 35-135 f/3.5-4.5 (not the USM version). I had a Nikon FE with a few lenses for backup... (Odd, I know). And The Wedding Photographer that "Gave"  me jobs, (at a 10% take), also used 35mm and 645, depending on the how much they wanted to spend.. But 645 and 6x6 was still the norm.

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Re: What does "pro" mean? What is a pro camera?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2011, 07:10:56 PM »
It is funny because when the rumor came up about the Olympus Micro Four Thirds pro camera, I honestly had no idea what they meant by that. I suppose a viewfinder is needed?
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