Author Topic: Printing costs, presentation for sale and related information (Read 2697 times)

n2hhr · « **on:** April 08, 2011, 07:18:34 AM »

Quote from: lisandra on April 07, 2011, 06:39:18 PM

a m4/3s 35-100 f2 or 2.8 would be priceless to me and it would certainly avoid the trip back to APS C land...
I do have the A55 but I reeeally dont want to invest heavily in sony lenses. The tamron 79-200 2.8 is dirt cheap (for that sort of lens) but its also not the sharpest thing (its actually a mixed bag of resolution)
Thoughts??

Yes, I agree. A fast 2.8 with a final length of 70-200 is just what the doctor ordered!

I only worked for Kodak for 15 years before I retired. I had a military career also... Please call me Mark!

As far as German/Japanese Glass, you must consider the longer lenses in the L Canon family as one of a kind world class. You just cannot get Leica in the same length. I have a 400 that will just blow you away. Now, lenses that I have and use (not including rare use lenses) are the 400 DO/IS f/4 which is my MAIN working lens and cost ~ $6000, in the shorter ranges (ALL L GLASS FROM CANON) I have a 70-200L f/4 that is sharper than the f/2.8 and weighs in at $1400, a 17-40L Series 2 at $800, a 24-70L f/2.8 at $1900 (another world class lens), a 90mm TSE (tilt and shift) at $1000, a 300L f/2.8 at $5000. These all make up my KIT that I travel with. I have several other L glass Canon lenses that I use but keep in a closet. Other assorted SPECIAL lenses are a Pinhole plate and a Lens Baby.

I keep a 1DSMK3 (my 3rd 1D body) and a (Soon) 7D. I have owned and hated the 5D and converted it to IR then sold it (I just don't like dumbed down bodies).

Alas, since the hospital stay last year I can NO LONGER HOLD this heavy equipment hence the switch to micro 4/3 which has been a life saver. So as you can see, the thought of spending $1000 to $1500 on a Panasonic or Olympus lens doesn't really bother me. I keep my glass and upgrade my bodies. I think that I have 90% of the micro 4/2 lenses in my kit now and will add 2 more soon, the 8mm fish eye and the Pan 14-140mm. I even have a lensbaby and a pinhole plate for this kit! To say that I love this small stuff is an understatement, it has actually saved my life.

Yes, I make a good living from my work and NONE of it is people! I am strictly a fine art nature and landscape artist and dabble in water drops. Lisandra, if I had worked for Kodak for 40 years I would be hmm..... about 70 now instead of in my 50's!

OK, this is how YOU can afford this same level of spending on your cameras.....

Start putting images in GALLERIES, NOT restaurant walls. Promote yourself on Face Book and have a BIG WEB presence. Take pictures for the local news. Submit to contests. Join EVERY photo group in your area. Do outdoor ART shows (VERY BIG DEAL, I a can make $9000 in a weekend at a good show!!!) Promote yourself, money will come in. It may take a year or 2 but soon you will have a funding source for lenses and trips!

traveler_101 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2011, 01:29:35 PM »

Quote from: n2hhr on April 08, 2011, 07:18:34 AM

I only worked for Kodak for 15 years before I retired. I had a military career also... Please call me Mark!

Alas, since the hospital stay last year I can NO LONGER HOLD this heavy equipment hence the switch to micro 4/3 which has been a life saver. So as you can see, the thought of spending $1000 to $1500 on a Panasonic or Olympus lens doesn't really bother me. I keep my glass and upgrade my bodies. I think that I have 90% of the micro 4/3 lenses in my kit now and will add 2 more soon, the 8mm fish eye and the Pan 14-140mm. I even have a lensbaby and a pinhole plate for this kit! To say that I love this small stuff is an understatement, it has actually saved my life.

Yes, I make a good living from my work and NONE of it is people! I am strictly a fine art nature and landscape artist and dabble in water drops. Lisandra, if I had worked for Kodak for 40 years I would be hmm..... about 70 now instead of in my 50's!

OK, this is how YOU can afford this same level of spending on your cameras.....

Start putting images in GALLERIES, NOT restaurant walls. Promote yourself on Face Book and have a BIG WEB presence. Take pictures for the local news. Submit to contests. Join EVERY photo group in your area. Do outdoor ART shows (VERY BIG DEAL, I a can make $9000 in a weekend at a good show!!!) Promote yourself, money will come in. It may take a year or 2 but soon you will have a funding source for lenses and trips!

Hi Mark,

It's interesting to "meet" different people and learn of the particular life paths that have lead to this forum. Kodak was a nice firm and they paid well, until things started down hill in the 1980s. It must have been tough when you quit and lost that regular pay check, but then you built a successful career as an independent photographer. You make it sound easy, but I am sure it must be very difficult even if one is good at it. I suppose if you hadn't become ill you might not be here. I hope you are well or on the road to recovery now.

You say that you have bought 90% of the M43 lenses, but as you know many of these are cheap lenses, especially in regard to build quality. There are some exceptions like the Panasonic 7-14 apparently. But the real treasure trove of very high quality lenses is in Olympus's standard 43 mount lineup of "high grade" glass. These are heavier than m43 lenses and quite expensive. They can be used on m43 with the adapter giving the camera full electronic interface with the lens. Every once and while I have come across a post by someone who uses one of these lenses to good effect, though the complaint is that AF is slow. However as a landscape photographer that might not matter so much to you. Have you ever tried one of these lenses and would you consider one?

By the way, my name is Mark also an it seems as if we are about the same age. Thanks for your post.

lisandra · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2011, 02:23:52 PM »

reeeeally sorry about the name change Mark, names are my biggest flaw. Also sorry about the 40 year career, I was kinda exaggerating but I was really far off. sorry.
I do put things up in galleries, and they do sell, but not often enough to have leftover for lenses. An outdoor art show ive never done, my problem is I cant bring myself to charge that much for my work. Tourists are my main market and the most Ive charged for a mounted photo is 600$, which if you take away what the mount charges and print charges it leaves about 300-350$ for me. Tell me If I should be charging more (I know its a personal thing, but I need guidance), the work does sell quite fast (faster than I can produce new ones). Is it correct to sell copies? I havent yet but if you and the members here think its ok I will. At a gallery the most Ive made is 3000$ over the course of 2 weeks.
Again sorry bout the name change, you know I have nothing but respect for you.

n2hhr · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2011, 05:40:46 PM »

Oh, Kodak, name it's no big deal! I actually took a medical retirement from them.

I haven't kept all of the lenses I got! The 14-42's the 17 pancake and some sort of 40-150 I gave away. They were just no good for me. I have the 14-150 which I really like, the 9-18 is great, the 20 pancake, 14-45, 45 pan/Leica, 100-300 which is very nice, a lens baby and a pinhole plate and a zone plate. I am planning on the 14-140 for my GH2(stabilizer) and the fisheye. I have had several 4/3 lenses including the huge 100-200 but sold them all as to slow and bulky. I have the canon ef adapter. I don't think I will be getting any adapted lenses as I am happy with what I do have bu I would LOVE to adapt mt canon 90 TS-E with aperture control for macro.

Lisandra, my most expensive print is 375.00 for a canvas gallery wrap panoramic 20x43! I also havs canvas gallery wraps 20x29 for 300.00 which I can sell 30 of at a good show! Matted prints at 8x12 in a 12x16 mat at 40.00 make up the main bulk sales for walkups that cannot afford the gallery wraps or large framed images 26x32 for 250.00. The key is to charge more than those around you but still be reasonable but to offer a large selection! TALK to your customers and develop a verbal relationship with them! TAKE CHARGE CARDS, this will more than triple your sales. You are a pretty girl! Dress suggestivly in a "Girl in the wild" type of clothing like Columbia. Get their attention with your dress then dazzle them with your mind. Get their attention with your big framed prices then sell hundreds of matted ones! But get their attention and sales will follow!

I am tall and a bit overweight. I keep a full beard, wear out door clothes and can and do talk to everyone. Once I start talking sales start coming!

With sales comes toys, camera bodies, lenses, accessories, carbon fibre and much much more. Don't spend your main income on cameras, make your cameras pay for themselves with sales! Do 4 big shows a summer, get into 3 galleries and 1 gift shop at a large tourist attraction. You will have trouble keeping all of these places stocked. Display LOCAL scenes. You will sell very few mountains at the ocean....

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:21:16 PM »

That sounds like great advise. I have never sold any prints, I have thought about it though. I guess I should go to some local art shows and get an Idea of what sells, prices, sizes etc.

What is "offer a large selection"? A couple 100 11x14 and smaller?
Do you flush Mat, or double mat with a border?

lisandra · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2011, 08:14:10 PM »

Quote from: n2hhr on April 08, 2011, 05:40:46 PM

Oh, Kodak, name it's no big deal! I actually took a medical retirement from them.

I haven't kept all of the lenses I got! The 14-42's the 17 pancake and some sort of 40-150 I gave away. They were just no good for me. I have the 14-150 which I really like, the 9-18 is great, the 20 pancake, 14-45, 45 pan/Leica, 100-300 which is very nice, a lens baby and a pinhole plate and a zone plate. I am planning on the 14-140 for my GH2(stabilizer) and the fisheye. I have had several 4/3 lenses including the huge 100-200 but sold them all as to slow and bulky. I have the canon ef adapter. I don't think I will be getting any adapted lenses as I am happy with what I do have bu I would LOVE to adapt mt canon 90 TS-E with aperture control for macro.

Lisandra, my most expensive print is 375.00 for a canvas gallery wrap panoramic 20x43! I also havs canvas gallery wraps 20x29 for 300.00 which I can sell 30 of at a good show! Matted prints at 8x12 in a 12x16 mat at 40.00 make up the main bulk sales for walkups that cannot afford the gallery wraps or large framed images 26x32 for 250.00. The key is to charge more than those around you but still be reasonable but to offer a large selection! TALK to your customers and develop a verbal relationship with them! TAKE CHARGE CARDS, this will more than triple your sales. You are a pretty girl! Dress suggestivly in a "Girl in the wild" type of clothing like Columbia. Get their attention with your dress then dazzle them with your mind. Get their attention with your big framed prices then sell hundreds of matted ones! But get their attention and sales will follow!

I am tall and a bit overweight. I keep a full beard, wear out door clothes and can and do talk to everyone. Once I start talking sales start coming!

With sales comes toys, camera bodies, lenses, accessories, carbon fibre and much much more. Don't spend your main income on cameras, make your cameras pay for themselves with sales! Do 4 big shows a summer, get into 3 galleries and 1 gift shop at a large tourist attraction. You will have trouble keeping all of these places stocked. Display LOCAL scenes. You will sell very few mountains at the ocean....

ok... SO Im not doing as bad as I thought!! I have no problems moving the big prints at 350$-500$ my problem is the small ones!! 12x9s go for a decent 45$ on thick foam board (matted) and 12x16 typically at 50-60$ is that it? should I lower the price on those? I mean, its better to sell bulk than no sales... Where do you do your gallery wraps? I order online and they cost me a fortune, even 24x18 are a bit steep. The one I sold for 600$ was a massive 40x30 shot with the E3 and a borrowed uber expensive lens, resized with alien bees software and printed on aluminum. It was soft up close with a bit of luma noise for the sake of detail, but from 3 feet and over it was a masterpiece. It wasnt even on sale, a guy that I was talking his ear off came to me and asked.
So the question remains, do you sell copies of the same version in the smaller prints?
Let me tell you, I AM PUMPED!!! Im going out there full force, Ive been waiting for advise like this for years!

n2hhr · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2011, 02:01:15 AM »

Keep your prices the same for the large framed prints and lower your matted prints. Add some mid sized at a lower price as well. Have at least 100 different imaged in stock. Yes, I sell the same prints at different sizes, 5x7 matted to 8x10 at $15. 8x12 matted to 12x16 at $40, some 20x24 marts at $75, 12x12 canvas gallery wraps at $70, 12x16 framed at $70, 20x29 canvas GW at $300, 20x24 framed at $150, 26x32 framed at $250 and 20x43 canvas pano GW at $375. Of course you can't have a large selection of hanging framed and GW so just put out your best shots as WOW images to draw people in, then kill them with smaller framed or matted sales, plus sell several of the big ones.

I do everything, nothing leaves my gallery. I have a large format giclee system framing and matting tools and I purchase supplies wholesale. I cut and build my stretcher frames and have a large v-nailer! All paid for by sales.

If you have to buy your stuff pre made or cut tack on the costs and pass them along. But remember this.....

NORMAL People are willing to buy art as long as it doesn't normally cost them more than the cost of a meal out. art shows draw big dollar buyers.

My matted stuff are single white mats on foam core in a clear bag enclosure. The 12x16 product costs me $5 to make! Don't be greedy but don't give it away or people will wander what is wrong with it or you!

lisandra · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2011, 08:50:25 AM »

Quote from: n2hhr on April 09, 2011, 02:01:15 AM

Keep your prices the same for the large framed prints and lower your matted prints. Add some mid sized at a lower price as well. Have at least 100 different imaged in stock. Yes, I sell the same prints at different sizes, 5x7 matted to 8x10 at $15. 8x12 matted to 12x16 at $40, some 20x24 marts at $75, 12x12 canvas gallery wraps at $70, 12x16 framed at $70, 20x29 canvas GW at $300, 20x24 framed at $150, 26x32 framed at $250 and 20x43 canvas pano GW at $375. Of course you can't have a large selection of hanging framed and GW so just put out your best shots as WOW images to draw people in, then kill them with smaller framed or matted sales, plus sell several of the big ones.

I do everything, nothing leaves my gallery. I have a large format giclee system framing and matting tools and I purchase supplies wholesale. I cut and build my stretcher frames and have a large v-nailer! All paid for by sales.

If you have to buy your stuff pre made or cut tack on the costs and pass them along. But remember this.....

NORMAL People are willing to buy art as long as it doesn't normally cost them more than the cost of a meal out. art shows draw big dollar buyers.

My matted stuff are single white mats on foam core in a clear bag enclosure. The 12x16 product costs me $5 to make! Don't be greedy but don't give it away or people will wander what is wrong with it or you!

You have no idea how grateful I am of all this info, I actually set an alarm to read your response. I am making a few mistakes but no biggies, correcting them will make a huge difference. Thank you!!!thank you thank you thank you. Another thing is, I am saving a lot printing at home, I invested in a large format printer (epson, with the money I earned at a gallery) and that way I also make sure colors are spot on, where do you print? at home too? And last question (really), is there anything you put over the photo paper itself? for instance, I have a guy that for non framed large prints on glossy paper, he laminates them with a thin super transparent UV film. You can touch it all day and even get it wet, but the film itself is a bit $$$. Is it worth it? its just that photo paper seems so delicate.. Do you print matte or glossy??(I said last question I know!!!sorry!!) I try to be consistent but I do both.
Also I meant foam core not foam board, my mistake, and I use gry or black for the color.

n2hhr · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2011, 01:13:28 PM »

I have a LARGE format Epson running the K3 ink set and I run a RIP from Imageprint for color correction and conversion to a Giclee system. I am running a closed loop color calibrated system and have THOUSANDS of ICC profiles for everything made! I print on hundreds of papers, cloths and metal. I typically print on mat, high gloss and canvas, with an occasional metal and silk print. I do NOT laminate, but I have the machine (36"). I use glass, in frames. Like I said, NOTHING leaves my gallery, I do everything. I have matt cutters, glass cutters and well everything necessary for framing.

lisandra · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2011, 11:00:29 PM »

Ok, so I have the large format epson, the colorburst RIP, a gazillion profiles, all I need to start doing is mounting the stuff I dont mount myself. You have a glass cutter?! wow. Ive printed on metal, gloss, matte, opalescent and canvas but not on cloth. SOOO, Im gonna go get a matt cutter and a bunch of other stuff and let you know how I did in 2 weeks time. Thank you for the tremendous help, all I needed was a boost in confidence, confidence in knowing that I CAN do the stuff myself, and that with hard work it can be done. Thanks for all the advise, its been gold, believe me.

n2hhr · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2011, 03:37:44 AM »

Quote from: lisandra on April 09, 2011, 11:00:29 PM

Ok, so I have the large format epson, the colorburst RIP, a gazillion profiles, all I need to start doing is mounting the stuff I dont mount myself. You have a glass cutter?! wow. Ive printed on metal, gloss, matte, opalescent and canvas but not on cloth. SOOO, Im gonna go get a matt cutter and a bunch of other stuff and let you know how I did in 2 weeks time. Thank you for the tremendous help, all I needed was a boost in confidence, confidence in knowing that I CAN do the stuff myself, and that with hard work it can be done. Thanks for all the advise, its been gold, believe me.

Do you know how rare it is for someone to actually have a RIP? That is a sign of a true professional photographer in that if you are going to print yourself (an art form on its own) then to have the best quality print capability!

You don't need to do the mat and glass cutting yourself. Cutting them takes REAL time! Most photographers find that the trade off in time vs. money too great and just buy these products from mattcutter.com or some other supplier. I on the other hand do have the extra time. It is a difference in just a couple of dollars per picture and most go the pre made route for these items.

The printing on the other hand is a large investment but pays itself off in about a year. If I had to pay some one to do my prints I wouldn't make much profit. With all that I have gathered in tools and printing my costs/profits are near this:

5x7 matted to 8x10 cost=1.50 price = 15.00
8x12 matted to 12x16 cost= 3.00 price = 40.00
20x24 framed cost = 20.00 price = 150.00
26x32 framed cost = 30.00 price = 250.00
20x29 gallery wrap cost = 50.00 price = 300.00

So you can see how this all ties together. Who cares if you have to raise your prices OR take less of a profit due to out sourcing at first! The KEY to profits is to do your own printing period.

You likely have a terrible full schedule being so young. Do not take on so much yourself and weigh the balance between doing and buying.

Which printer did you get? I have to tell you how impressed I am with you!

Start with what you have now, do your printing. If you need special mounting pay for that but raise the price accordingly on those items. Don't worry about mat cutting, pay the price for pre made matts over the internet, and raise the price accordingly. As you start making money put a little aside to buy more tools and supplies. Start buying and upgrading your photo equipment. Get into the galleries and a store first! I know that you are not going to make photography your main income so you have to be careful that you do not get burned out on it and ruin it for yourself. You will be surprised how difficult it is to feed 3 galleries plus a couple of shows a year! Let the Gallery sales pay for supplies for galleries and shows and let the shows pay for your photo equipment!

Remember, I have built this tool chest and photo bag up since 2003 long after I retired. I had the time but not the money. I started out with storage in a closet and working on the kitchen table with a loft for the printer and computer. Then I moved up to using the garage, then I had to rent a storage building to hold the tubs of prints for the shows! It got so out of hand that we decided it was time to open our own gallery across the street just to get the stuff out of the house! I started out with an Epson 4000, then a 7800 and am thinking about the 9900 now. Each printer takes a year to pay for itself. The key here is if this is to be a hobby/passion to go slow but keep it building!

When I first retired I moved down to Pawleys Island from New York and lived on a 30' boat for 6 years all the time trying to grow my camera bag and printing capability on the boat! I found my wife and married and moved ashore and kept going. But I did all of this slowly and was able to keep my passion in place during the process. Keeping your passion is the best advice that I can give you over all else.

n2hhr · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2011, 04:19:26 AM »

Quote from: n2hhr on April 10, 2011, 03:37:44 AM

Quote from: lisandra on April 09, 2011, 11:00:29 PM
Ok, so I have the large format epson, the colorburst RIP, a gazillion profiles, all I need to start doing is mounting the stuff I dont mount myself. You have a glass cutter?! wow. Ive printed on metal, gloss, matte, opalescent and canvas but not on cloth. SOOO, Im gonna go get a matt cutter and a bunch of other stuff and let you know how I did in 2 weeks time. Thank you for the tremendous help, all I needed was a boost in confidence, confidence in knowing that I CAN do the stuff myself, and that with hard work it can be done. Thanks for all the advise, its been gold, believe me.

I am sorry everyone, this series of posts has been WAY OFF TOPIC!

Do you know how rare it is for someone to actually have a RIP? That is a sign of a true professional photographer in that if you are going to print yourself (an art form on its own) then to have the best quality print capability!

You don't need to do the mat and glass cutting yourself. Cutting them takes REAL time! Most photographers find that the trade off in time vs. money too great and just buy these products from mattcutter.com or some other supplier. I on the other hand do have the extra time. It is a difference in just a couple of dollars per picture and most go the pre made route for these items.

The printing on the other hand is a large investment but pays itself off in about a year. If I had to pay some one to do my prints I wouldn't make much profit. With all that I have gathered in tools and printing my costs/profits are near this:

5x7 matted to 8x10 cost=1.50 price = 15.00
8x12 matted to 12x16 cost= 3.00 price = 40.00
20x24 framed cost = 20.00 price = 150.00
26x32 framed cost = 30.00 price = 250.00
20x29 gallery wrap cost = 50.00 price = 300.00

So you can see how this all ties together. Who cares if you have to raise your prices OR take less of a profit due to out sourcing at first! The KEY to profits is to do your own printing period.

You likely have a terrible full schedule being so young. Do not take on so much yourself and weigh the balance between doing and buying.

Which printer did you get? I have to tell you how impressed I am with you!

Start with what you have now, do your printing. If you need special mounting pay for that but raise the price accordingly on those items. Don't worry about mat cutting, pay the price for pre made matts over the internet, and raise the price accordingly. As you start making money put a little aside to buy more tools and supplies. Start buying and upgrading your photo equipment. Get into the galleries and a store first! I know that you are not going to make photography your main income so you have to be careful that you do not get burned out on it and ruin it for yourself. You will be surprised how difficult it is to feed 3 galleries plus a couple of shows a year! Let the Gallery sales pay for supplies for galleries and shows and let the shows pay for your photo equipment!

Remember, I have built this tool chest and photo bag up since 2003 long after I retired. I had the time but not the money. I started out with storage in a closet and working on the kitchen table with a loft for the printer and computer. Then I moved up to using the garage, then I had to rent a storage building to hold the tubs of prints for the shows! It got so out of hand that we decided it was time to open our own gallery across the street just to get the stuff out of the house! I started out with an Epson 4000, then a 7800 and am thinking about the 9900 now. Each printer takes a year to pay for itself. The key here is if this is to be a hobby/passion to go slow but keep it building!

When I first retired I moved down to Pawleys Island from New York and lived on a 30' boat for 6 years all the time trying to grow my camera bag and printing capability on the boat! I found my wife and married and moved ashore and kept going. But I did all of this slowly and was able to keep my passion in place during the process. Keeping your passion is the best advice that I can give you over all else.

n2hhr · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2011, 04:20:39 AM »

Quote from: lisandra on April 09, 2011, 11:00:29 PM

Ok, so I have the large format epson, the colorburst RIP, a gazillion profiles, all I need to start doing is mounting the stuff I dont mount myself. You have a glass cutter?! wow. Ive printed on metal, gloss, matte, opalescent and canvas but not on cloth. SOOO, Im gonna go get a matt cutter and a bunch of other stuff and let you know how I did in 2 weeks time. Thank you for the tremendous help, all I needed was a boost in confidence, confidence in knowing that I CAN do the stuff myself, and that with hard work it can be done. Thanks for all the advise, its been gold, believe me.

I am sorry everyone, this series of posts has been WAY OFF TOPIC!

Do you know how rare it is for someone to actually have a RIP? That is a sign of a true professional photographer in that if you are going to print yourself (an art form on its own) then to have the best quality print capability!

You don't need to do the mat and glass cutting yourself. Cutting them takes REAL time! Most photographers find that the trade off in time vs. money too great and just buy these products from mattcutter.com or some other supplier. I on the other hand do have the extra time. It is a difference in just a couple of dollars per picture and most go the pre made route for these items.

The printing on the other hand is a large investment but pays itself off in about a year. If I had to pay some one to do my prints I wouldn't make much profit. With all that I have gathered in tools and printing my costs/profits are near this:

5x7 matted to 8x10 cost=1.50 price = 15.00
8x12 matted to 12x16 cost= 3.00 price = 40.00
20x24 framed cost = 20.00 price = 150.00
26x32 framed cost = 30.00 price = 250.00
20x29 gallery wrap cost = 50.00 price = 300.00

So you can see how this all ties together. Who cares if you have to raise your prices OR take less of a profit due to out sourcing at first! The KEY to profits is to do your own printing period.

You likely have a terrible full schedule being so young. Do not take on so much yourself and weigh the balance between doing and buying.

Which printer did you get? I have to tell you how impressed I am with you!

Start with what you have now, do your printing. If you need special mounting pay for that but raise the price accordingly on those items. Don't worry about mat cutting, pay the price for pre made matts over the internet, and raise the price accordingly. As you start making money put a little aside to buy more tools and supplies. Start buying and upgrading your photo equipment. Get into the galleries and a store first! I know that you are not going to make photography your main income so you have to be careful that you do not get burned out on it and ruin it for yourself. You will be surprised how difficult it is to feed 3 galleries plus a couple of shows a year! Let the Gallery sales pay for supplies for galleries and shows and let the shows pay for your photo equipment!

Remember, I have built this tool chest and photo bag up since 2003 long after I retired. I had the time but not the money. I started out with storage in a closet and working on the kitchen table with a loft for the printer and computer. Then I moved up to using the garage, then I had to rent a storage building to hold the tubs of prints for the shows! It got so out of hand that we decided it was time to open our own gallery across the street just to get the stuff out of the house! I started out with an Epson 4000, then a 7800 and am thinking about the 9900 now. Each printer takes a year to pay for itself. The key here is if this is to be a hobby/passion to go slow but keep it building!

When I first retired I moved down to Pawleys Island from New York and lived on a 30' boat for 6 years all the time trying to grow my camera bag and printing capability on the boat! I found my wife and married and moved ashore and kept going. But I did all of this slowly and was able to keep my passion in place during the process. Keeping your passion is the best advice that I can give you over all else.

lisandra · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2011, 08:56:44 AM »

Quote from: n2hhr on April 10, 2011, 03:37:44 AM

Quote from: lisandra on April 09, 2011, 11:00:29 PM
Ok, so I have the large format epson, the colorburst RIP, a gazillion profiles, all I need to start doing is mounting the stuff I dont mount myself. You have a glass cutter?! wow. Ive printed on metal, gloss, matte, opalescent and canvas but not on cloth. SOOO, Im gonna go get a matt cutter and a bunch of other stuff and let you know how I did in 2 weeks time. Thank you for the tremendous help, all I needed was a boost in confidence, confidence in knowing that I CAN do the stuff myself, and that with hard work it can be done. Thanks for all the advise, its been gold, believe me.

Do you know how rare it is for someone to actually have a RIP? That is a sign of a true professional photographer in that if you are going to print yourself (an art form on its own) then to have the best quality print capability!

You don't need to do the mat and glass cutting yourself. Cutting them takes REAL time! Most photographers find that the trade off in time vs. money too great and just buy these products from mattcutter.com or some other supplier. I on the other hand do have the extra time. It is a difference in just a couple of dollars per picture and most go the pre made route for these items.

The printing on the other hand is a large investment but pays itself off in about a year. If I had to pay some one to do my prints I wouldn't make much profit. With all that I have gathered in tools and printing my costs/profits are near this:

5x7 matted to 8x10 cost=1.50 price = 15.00
8x12 matted to 12x16 cost= 3.00 price = 40.00
20x24 framed cost = 20.00 price = 150.00
26x32 framed cost = 30.00 price = 250.00
20x29 gallery wrap cost = 50.00 price = 300.00

So you can see how this all ties together. Who cares if you have to raise your prices OR take less of a profit due to out sourcing at first! The KEY to profits is to do your own printing period.

You likely have a terrible full schedule being so young. Do not take on so much yourself and weigh the balance between doing and buying.

Which printer did you get? I have to tell you how impressed I am with you!

Start with what you have now, do your printing. If you need special mounting pay for that but raise the price accordingly on those items. Don't worry about mat cutting, pay the price for pre made matts over the internet, and raise the price accordingly. As you start making money put a little aside to buy more tools and supplies. Start buying and upgrading your photo equipment. Get into the galleries and a store first! I know that you are not going to make photography your main income so you have to be careful that you do not get burned out on it and ruin it for yourself. You will be surprised how difficult it is to feed 3 galleries plus a couple of shows a year! Let the Gallery sales pay for supplies for galleries and shows and let the shows pay for your photo equipment!

Remember, I have built this tool chest and photo bag up since 2003 long after I retired. I had the time but not the money. I started out with storage in a closet and working on the kitchen table with a loft for the printer and computer. Then I moved up to using the garage, then I had to rent a storage building to hold the tubs of prints for the shows! It got so out of hand that we decided it was time to open our own gallery across the street just to get the stuff out of the house! I started out with an Epson 4000, then a 7800 and am thinking about the 9900 now. Each printer takes a year to pay for itself. The key here is if this is to be a hobby/passion to go slow but keep it building!

When I first retired I moved down to Pawleys Island from New York and lived on a 30' boat for 6 years all the time trying to grow my camera bag and printing capability on the boat! I found my wife and married and moved ashore and kept going. But I did all of this slowly and was able to keep my passion in place during the process. Keeping your passion is the best advice that I can give you over all else.

Ive had for a while the 3880, its my workhorse, the colorburst RIP is an essential tool that many people consider $$$, but its just great. The recent upgrade in printer I made was to a 7900, I bought it splitting the cost with my recent photo partner (LIOM photography, actually, I became the partner). I havent done much in it but it is a beast, you can reeeeally see the difference with the ultrachrome HDR inks. I know what you mean about the kitchen table, at one point I got up one day and there were prints all over the living room floor covered in cookie sheets so the wouldnt get damaged and it was a huge mess. At that point I decided something had to be done, I bought a wood shop table and dedicated a room to studio/developing. Youre right, I have little time, I took the water drops photos way back when I asked you for advice, and I still havent got the chance to look at them letalone post them. But I do have a ton of passion, I either find the time or I make it, I cant stop thinking photography, and its been like that for years. Im excited...

lisandra · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2011, 05:20:19 PM »

Did I mention the 7900 came on a palette? Its not a one man job that thing....and setting it up! o god...

lisandra · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2011, 05:37:34 PM »

ALso, you can get incredible looking paper on www.redrivercatalog.com
Youve never been amazed by a print until you print on polar pearl metallic paper...itll change your life.
Ive been following Mark's advise and mounting a couple of stuff to take to an outdoor art show, I have this whole week off and Ill see how it goes. Some of the stuff Ill be selling is already posted here like the fortress bay and the happy place, theyve been huge sellers in the past amongst tourists so why not keep using them!

n2hhr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 18, 2011, 06:29:29 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on April 18, 2011, 05:37:34 PM

ALso, you can get incredible looking paper on www.redrivercatalog.com
Youve never been amazed by a print until you print on polar pearl metallic paper...itll change your life.
Ive been following Mark's advise and mounting a couple of stuff to take to an outdoor art show, I have this whole week off and Ill see how it goes. Some of the stuff Ill be selling is already posted here like the fortress bay and the happy place, theyve been huge sellers in the past amongst tourists so why not keep using them!

Oh, I do so detest RedRiver products. Check out Lexjet in Florida, they cater to us large format printers and their house papers are beyond belief. I have used their metallic but the Lexjet metallic is sooooo much better!

Yes the printers are big and heavy!

lisandra · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:03:07 PM »

lexjet it is! Ill order some paper on tuesday. why do you hate red river?
I think Im on a metallic phase, blues and magentas look amazing, Im gonna take your word for it and order a 17x100 roll

lisandra · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:07:34 PM »

what I cant seem to find is an ink set that has all the inks. Id like to have backups without having to buy them seperately

candyspan6 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:40:50 PM »

Please, please, please compile this information into a simple PDF and distribution it with all of the great advice, and tips that have been mentioned, and yet to be. This is great advice, and very motivating. If you don't have your own large format printer, what online resources do the best job, at the best price to eventually get me there? The brick and mortars here in NYC are really expensive, so I'm looking for an alternative.

It would be great to get further advice on the types of ink sets you both use for galleries and such. I just want to make sure I'm speaking the right language when I start shopping my pieces around. I've also been given some exciting photography projects around New York City, and will be looking to leverage that exposure to approach more galleries, etc...

n2hhr · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:14:07 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on April 18, 2011, 10:07:34 PM

what I cant seem to find is an ink set that has all the inks. Id like to have backups without having to buy them seperately

They DO NOT sell large format inks in sets. Remember that your printer WILL work with the PHATT BLACK system that Lexjet sells! Ohhhh, what a difference when you use Phatt and the RIP (Has to be ImagePrint)

voyager · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2011, 11:28:24 AM »

By the way, just wanted to mention that Costco does incredibly cheap prints, and they are of the same quality as Adorama and Mpix. I was astounded that my $5 16x20 was so good.

lisandra · « **Reply #22 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:43:23 PM »

I had an art show last night, it was gonna be a outdoor type of thing but at the last moment a space was offered at a new gallery (Ill post some pics later). It was 4 hours only and it was me a 3 other photographers. I did good, Mark was right, the 12x9s/12x8s sold like there was no tomorrow for 30$. All in all, subtracting what I spent, I made a clean 800$, well..a huge gallery wrap is responsible for 300$ of those but profit is profit! Two things:
1. Overdone HDRs sell, reeeeeally good
2. I need an infrared camera!!!!

What I needed was a boost in confidence and a bit of guidance and believe me, Marks advise works. We dressed up (me and the photo partner, a good looking dude) and pulled people in with the big powerful prints, fully knowing (like Mark said) that these weren't the ones we were gonna push on people but once they were in we attacked them with the smaller ones. The big ones sell themselves, I needed to stop worrying about them. Awesome evening

n2hhr · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2011, 03:58:52 PM »

Good for you! And only 4 hours!!

lisandra · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2011, 05:23:02 PM »

Yeah having a partner there helped a lot to move things. What really helped things a million times was having a wireless credit/debit card receiver there. I would have made less than half if it werent for that.

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