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Offline pretzston

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First wedding! HELP!!
« on: August 18, 2011, 07:52:57 AM »
Ok, so, in late September I shoot my first wedding on my little EPL1.  For an old friend in a DIY sorta wedding.  I'm a bit nervous.  I thought I would ask for advice, thoughts on accessories of planning that could be helpful etc.

Location - Farm in PA, reception in a barn lit with small lights and hung white christmas lights around the ceiling

Timing - wedding around 4pm (sun) reception around 6-9 (very dark)

Equipment:
 EPL1
 Pana 20mm
 m Zuiko 9-18mm
 Pana 45-200mm
 Canon FD 50mm
 Canon FD 28mm
 Dissan Flash w/ white soft cover

* Four batteries
* 16gb, 8gb, 4gb cards
* cleaning equipment
* extra AA batteries for flash


THOUGHTS?  I don't want to ruin this wedding!


Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 08:33:00 AM »
Before the Wedding starts... That is: NOW....
Ask your friends where the Wedding is, and go there the same time of day and make test shoots with various lenses you will use., use both Available light and the flash at all the locations so you are familiar with the results you will get.

Ask them "Where" and "HOW" the Wedding will proceed.  That is: A Rehearsal that shows YOU the process, that will help you decide "WHERE" to stand (or sit), AND what lens to use at any point in time, as the Wedding moves on.  It is very important that you KNOW THE TIMING of the Wedding, so you can take the "Must Have" photos and quickly move to the next vantage point before the Wedding party starts the next part of the ceremony.

Find out when "YOU CAN NOT USE FLASH"  You will HAVE TO use available light (20mm) for those... Take test shots at the high ISO settings, and use the ISO that allows a faster Shutter Speed (1/125s or higher) to avoid ANY MOTION BLUR from the wedding party or you.

I'm sure Lisandra will share some great advise on what photos you MUST GET....   ;)



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Offline Centauri27

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 09:32:15 AM »
I haven't shot a wedding with my PEN yet, but I have shot a wedding reception at a restaurant. My tips are:

 - Turn on face detection for focussing. This works very well in a fast-paced environment and it's important to get the faces in focus. Multi-point focus usually gets it wrong and there's often not enough time for single point focussing.

 - Set your metering to centre-weight. Though evaluative metering works well most of the time, I find it sometimes underexposes people shots.

 - Shoot RAW. Or better yet, shoot RAW+JPEG. This will save you the tedium of developing each shot and give you the safety of the highest quality file should you need to edit.

 - Consider using the different Art filters: I've found Soft Focus and Grainy Film to be really effective. Note that if you shoot RAW, you can always apply these filters later using Olympus Viewer 2.

Offline WheeE-P1

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 11:32:57 AM »
Advice Pretzston, really? Can I refer you to your Stone Harbor engagement pictures? :) If you screw this up I'll eat my E-P1.

My only suggestion - it would be good if you could borrow a second camera body as a safety backup. If you can't borrow one (and if funds permitted) you could buy one on a returnable basis and keep it unopened somewhere at hand.

Offline Centauri27

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 12:13:24 PM »
That's a good idea--and not unethical too if you return it unopened after the wedding. I've heard similar advice for batteries and chargers too--always have spares for really important events. You can purchase a set of backup batteries+chargers for really cheap. I got a spare battery and charger for my E-P1 for a little over $10 on Amazon, to prep me for my big Europe trip next month.

Offline lisandra

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 12:48:20 PM »
Ok.

Put that flash on the camera on dont take it off until september. Practice with it as much as you can, your goal is to get everything exposed with the flash on. What I mean with this is to avoid getting the subject exposed and the rest black, its the most amateurish look that most people get out of their point and shoots. This means shooting at mid ISOs even with the flash on Start at ISO 400, you can get away with shutter speeds in the 1/60-1/80 range with flash, but dont push it. If you can go there and practice do it. Be sure to bring someone, shooting and empty room and shooting a room with somebody in it are two entirely different things. While youre there, practice some artsy stuff, all that you can think of, dont get to the wedding and improvise there, that usually results in you thinking of the best ideas when its all over. Get comfortable with one lens, youll soon find out that changing lenses mid ceremony is a big no. When things slow down a bit (theyre eating, or doing something not paramount) then you can afford to change that lens. Maybe a 9mm shot of it all. That 45-200 is (to me) your best bet, its slightly too cropy for comfort, but the zoom range is useful. Thats why you have to get comfortable with it, to know exactly where you have to be and how far to get the angle you want. I spot meter and center spot focus everything, using the focus and recompose technique, that way I get exactly what I want in focus and exposed. BUT, I understand that spot metering is a daunting thing, and evaluative works in most of the cases fine (especially with face detection). Turn the flash off if you want to take non flash stuff but dont take it off. If you can avoid changing lenses by setting the camera down or bracing against something do that. If you happen to have a second body or have a fellow enthusiast, take it/him with you, and give him instructions. Adorama will take returns of open package cameras with a certain amount of photos taken.The less you have to think about, the more you can concentrate on what you have to do.
If theres a rehearsal you HAVE to go, you have to. If theres someone in charge (there usually is) tell them to give u a rundown of whats gonna go down, surprises and all (there usually are), from start to finish.
Things you cant miss are the entrance of the bride (not the marching, thats the toughest shot in the world, even if you have a continuous phase detection AF camera), blessing of the rings (if done), Him placing the ring on her, her placing the ring on him, THE KISS (you missed this you might as well call it a night, tell them pre wedding not to tilt their heads, him not to dip her and to take their time). Some people do other traditions like give coins to each other, you cant miss that (this is why rehearsal is important). Be always aware of the parents, they start crying, get a shot of that, theyll love it. After the ceremony do a mini shoot of them with all the family and then all the friends. The artsy stuff you practiced should go here, after the ceremony before the reception. Tell them what you want to do before the day of the wedding so they can set 20 minutes for that. Off wedding stuff you shouldnt miss are an invitation, the bouquet, the toast, the dance to their song (this is important and personal to them, get a cute one) the throwing of the bouquet and the corsage ( a tough one, be sure to know if theyre gonna fake throw it and how many fake throws, have everything pre focused well before the real throw), the cake on its own, the slicing of said cake and the first bite. Dont be afraid of ISO numbers, a clean photo that shown motion blur is USELESS, noise can be dealt with. Shoot RAW, if you dont have a major developer, lightroom is free for 30 days fully functional, no watermarks. Ill help you get to grips with it.
GET IDEAS LOOKING AT OTHER PEOPLES STUFF!! Google it,  Theres no shame in it, give it you own touch.
As you can see, theres no amount of god given talent thatll save you if youre not incredibly prepared, if you think you have something down, that means you should go practice some more.
Samples
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Offline WheeE-P1

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 02:17:59 PM »
OR, take the flash off, put it in the bin and get natural looking pictures without blown highlights and harsh shadows. Go to higher ISO/slightly grainy (even if that means black and white) if you have to. Nobody wants to see a sharp, bright picture of the bride's hairy hands.

It's their day, you are an accessory not a director. This is not a fashion shoot. Ask them what pictures are important to them beforehand and take accordingly.

Offline lisandra

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 09:16:59 AM »
OR, take the flash off, put it in the bin and get natural looking pictures without blown highlights and harsh shadows. Go to higher ISO/slightly grainy (even if that means black and white) if you have to. Nobody wants to see a sharp, bright picture of the bride's hairy hands.

It's their day, you are an accessory not a director. This is not a fashion shoot. Ask them what pictures are important to them beforehand and take accordingly.
daydreaming is fun....
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Offline n2hhr

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 12:02:40 PM »
Lisandra.... YES YES YES!  That is the Best advice I have seen given to a beginner in a long time!  Become the master of the flash and you will go far.  Don't use it and your images will look like everyday images that anyone can take.
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Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 12:11:51 PM »
Lisandra.... YES YES YES!  That is the Best advice I have seen given to a beginner in a long time!  Become the master of the flash and you will go far.  Don't use it and your images will look like everyday images that anyone can take.

Ditto...
When I did Weddings, the Flash was never taken off, (turned off at times) With TTL-Flash and a little know-how with using +/- EC Flash settings, you can achieve balanced with proper contrast photos that don't scream "Flash-Used". Manual flash can be used also.. but takes a bit more knowledge for Flash Exposure Compensation in Manual.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 12:17:47 PM by M5-User »
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Offline Centauri27

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2011, 12:28:24 PM »
Yes, I've noticed that TTL flash has the amazing ability to preserve the "available light" look (sometimes too much so). The difference is that with flash, your picture may be taken at ISO 200 @ 1/60 sec vs. maybe ISO 1600 @ 1/15 available light--a huge difference when it comes to the quality of the final image.

Offline lisandra

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2011, 04:18:42 PM »
There are quite many a good photos with natural light (the bride window shot comes to mind), but it should not be the bulk of the work, natural light is not an easy thing to control. You gotta control the light or the light itself will take over your exposure, shadows, and contrast. Even in bright sunlight fashion shoots some sort of off-camera flash is used most of the times. Well used flash can help you avoid blown highlights.  In a wedding with the light as described by pretzston (f2.8-4 region), even with the panny at 1.7 at ISO 1600, it'll be difficult to get a decent shutter speed. You gotta remember weddings are hectic things, everybody is always moving and flash can help freeze things up. Flash also helps bring out that micro-detail that'll help tremendously in hiding whatever noise is there. Having that diffuser there with will also be a great aid. Practice practice practice
Pretzston, tell me more about that flash...is it a HSS model? does it swivel/tilt? whats the guide number? Is it TTL?
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Offline lisandra

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 04:37:31 PM »
This is with the flash pointed directly at them and my buddy holding a reflector, otherwise it would have been them exposed and a severely blown everything else or the other way around. Having a full frame with you (like many think) doesn't magically fix this, taking control of the light is the thing to do. Its not only for low light. Once you start practicing in different levels of light and situations youll see what I mean. Post that flash info I asked for!
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Offline Handheld

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2011, 10:52:39 AM »
Ok, so, in late September I shoot my first wedding on my little EPL1. ...THOUGHTS?  I don't want to ruin this wedding!

I've shot several weddings with up to around a hundred guests. Beyond the relatively short ceremony the action shifts around, and some of the best photo ops can be before or after when people are mixing. So, the photography is part formal and part event style. You know the PEN's limitations, so do what experience tells you will work. Even though I have an E-P1, I use my E-series cameras for weddings because I am more comfortable using them in action situations. (The E-P3 would be nice to try, though!)

For me the trick is to know what's happening, be observant and take lots of photos. For a complete shindig--rehearsal, portraits, wedding, groups and reception--the output will be well over a thousand frames that are edited down to several hundred. RAW is best although JPEG can be fine; I shoot both and use the RAW only when beneficial in post-processing.

White clothing and harsh lighting can play havoc on exposures and shadow detail. Some lighting conditions demand a flash to get the best results. Flash can be challenging with the PEN. I use an FL-50R which has fast recycle, super auto-exposure and useful features. Work with what you have but take test shots before and during the event so there are no surprises.

I like to use a normal zoom most of the time with a long zoom at the ready for special situations such as the ring exchange. And a wide-angle for overall scenes. I prefer spot focusing, high shutter speeds and burst mode during the action. Portraits are different, naturally. A couple of times I have found a small ladder to be useful for group shots.

Extra charged batteries and memory cards go without saying. A backup camera is prudent. If there is another photographer, coordinate with them, of course. Get to know the person in charge to find out exactly what is expected of you and to let them know what you will need. Once the ceremony is over people will be in party mode and hard to corral, so the person in charge can be very helpful.

Most of all, have fun and try to bring out the best in the people, both laughs and tears. It is more about capturing the feeling than making technically perfect shots. Also, something is sure to go wrong with the proceedings so be there to record it because it will be a funny memory afterwards. I've seen the wedding party get lost, the getaway car not start, the deck with dancers break, decorations blow away, and so on. You can't get everything, so don't worry. Just do the best you can and your friend will appreciate it.


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Offline pretzston

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2011, 11:55:36 AM »
I was waiting to post until I had time to look at all of this!  Thanks for all the advice.  I was just about to launch into a post when my 5 month old baby started to cry!  I'll be back.

Lisandra, as per your recommendation (at the time for general use not for weddings or anything) Nissin Di466... I ordered a little white diffusor for it which should be here soon.

Offline lisandra

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 03:50:24 PM »
I was waiting to post until I had time to look at all of this!  Thanks for all the advice.  I was just about to launch into a post when my 5 month old baby started to cry!  I'll be back.

Lisandra, as per your recommendation (at the time for general use not for weddings or anything) Nissin Di466... I ordered a little white diffusor for it which should be here soon.
I had the nissin at one point, its quite good, not HSS but you wont need it. I didnt get rid of it because of anything bad, I wsnt really using it. If ever I should get a pen or GF panny ill get it again. The nissin is very easy to use and regulate. Play with flash regulation when you practice.Guide number is 33 if im not wrong (forgive me if I am) which is not bad, tilt but no swivel. Go out and practice that tilt at different angles (and ISOs and such), youll love the crap out of the results. What kind of diffuser you got? I used to have a stofen diffuser on the nissin which worked remarkably well. The studio-like softboxes that attach to the flash work well in directing soft light too (pictures of the stofen and sofbox below). Since then Im only using gary fongs lightsphere diffusers, but you need swivel for them so no. Youre well on your way with the advice here, practice till your finger hurts and I promise youll do great!


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Offline Psynema

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 04:03:41 PM »
Ok, so, in late September I shoot my first wedding on my little EPL1.  For an old friend in a DIY sorta wedding.  I'm a bit nervous.  I thought I would ask for advice, thoughts on accessories of planning that could be helpful etc.

Location - Farm in PA, reception in a barn lit with small lights and hung white christmas lights around the ceiling

Timing - wedding around 4pm (sun) reception around 6-9 (very dark)

Equipment:
 EPL1
 Pana 20mm
 m Zuiko 9-18mm
 Pana 45-200mm
 Canon FD 50mm
 Canon FD 28mm
 Dissan Flash w/ white soft cover

* Four batteries
* 16gb, 8gb, 4gb cards
* cleaning equipment
* extra AA batteries for flash


THOUGHTS?  I don't want to ruin this wedding!

My initial thought is that you don't have a long fast lens in there.  the 45-200 is too slow at 5.6 (and noted to be soft at the long end).  Check out lensrentals.com if you're friend is willing to chip in if this is a favor. 

Or 85mm Rokinon (get a canon mount since the adapter is cheaper vs. a 4/3 to m4/3 adapter).  135mm 2.8 Canon FD is VERY CHEAP on ebay/KEH/adorama.com...I have the F2 version and recommend that but it will be about $400 give or take. 

TTL - cheapest TTL Flash I think is the vivitar 383.($130 new, much cheaper used)  Try getting a gary fongsphere (but be careful in close quarters with it) - there's cheaper knockoffs of it so you don't pay $50 for tupperware. 

Offline lisandra

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 02:40:13 PM »
You should do fine with what you have, af will work fine because of af assist on the nissin. manual focusing is unpractical as is changing lenses.
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Offline Centauri27

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 03:13:11 PM »
You should do fine with what you have, af will work fine because of af assist on the nissin. manual focusing is unpractical as is changing lenses.

I agree completely--things will be too fast paced. But this makes me wonder: how the heck did we take such pictures in the olden days before AF? Was it that much more work?  ;)

The Nissin has an optical light beam to help the PEN cameras focus, right? I seem to recall this as I considered the Nissin vs. Olympus flash. 

Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2011, 04:21:37 PM »
You should do fine with what you have, af will work fine because of af assist on the nissin. manual focusing is unpractical as is changing lenses.

I agree completely--things will be too fast paced. But this makes me wonder: how the heck did we take such pictures in the olden days before AF? Was it that much more work?  ;)

The Nissin has an optical light beam to help the PEN cameras focus, right? I seem to recall this as I considered the Nissin vs. Olympus flash.

We used high power flashes (GN: 130+ ISO 100 @ 10') with Quantam Battery packs, and used f/11 and the hyper-focal DOF scale to make in essence, an expensive P/S Wedding Camera  ;)
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Offline Centauri27

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 04:42:51 PM »
Ah...so that's what I was doing...  ;)

Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 05:14:27 PM »
Ah...so that's what I was doing...  ;)

I just used 2 lenses.... 21-35, 35-135, but, Although I was using a Canon EOS 630.. :P
Still had the High Power flash with Quantam Pack.. loved the 1/2s recycle time on a full dump  :D
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Offline pretzston

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2011, 06:44:44 PM »
Wow!  So much info in here to digest.  More comments coming soon.

I actually have a Super Albinar 135 2.8... I'll have to check that out.

I'm considering purchasing a 50mm 1.2 or a 55 1.2 Canon FD.  What do you guys think of that?

Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2011, 06:51:44 PM »
There are several versions of those lenses... They actually made a consumer f/1.2 and an "L" version... it may not say "L", but it will have a RED stripe on the nose to tell you it is an "L" Build with matching IQ.

But, both are great lenses....neither will disappoint you.
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Offline adash

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Re: First wedding! HELP!!
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2011, 11:25:50 PM »
Quote
The Nissin has an optical light beam to help the PEN cameras focus, right?
Not sure it will work on any of the old PENs (almost certain it will not).
Quote
I actually have a Super Albinar 135 2.8... I'll have to check that out.
This focal length makes it very difficult to work with m4/3 sensor. I mean you have to be quite away for a suitable head-and-shoulders shot, and sort of one block away for a full-height portrait.
Quote
I'm considering purchasing a 50mm 1.2 or a 55 1.2 Canon FD.  What do you guys think of that?
MF will make it difficult to shoot with E-Px, much slower than you would with a proper SLR with a split-image prism. I am also excluding DSLRs as they don't have split image ground glasses as standard.
BTW, I never did weddings, but as far as I know, shallow focus has a limited use at such. For the most of the photos you will have to act as fast as possible too, so old MF glass is automatically out of the question.
Bring a second body, or make an arrangement with a friend that can help you in case something happens.
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