Author Topic: Panasonic's first fixed lens Micro Four Thirds camera! (Read 4409 times)

voyager · « **on:** June 29, 2010, 05:40:18 PM »

http://43rumors.com/ft5-awesome-new-panasonic-camera-with-m43-sensor-fixed-3x-zoom-lens-and-innovative-leica-designed-rangefinder/

There are days you canâ€™t miss to visit 43rumorsâ€¦and today is one of those days. Finally after three months of wait a new camera is going to be announced. And I am sure that many of you will like the rumors we are going to post today! As usual 43rumors is the first to report you the news

According to our sources Panasonic will soon (yes in July!) launch a new compact camera with MicroFourThrids sensor. The camera is reported to be very small (just a little bit bigger than the current Panasonic LX3). The new camera will have 3x zoom lens which our source told us to be an awesome Leica lens. We do not have a reliable info about the focal lenght but we expect to get more detailled infos soon. And now hold in your breathâ€¦(drumming)â€¦.it will have a special rangefinder-type optical viewfinder that is borrowed from Leica with marks in it for max zoom and fully wide angle!

For Leica fans: One of our new sources said that there could be a Leica version of the camera. That sounds a little bit weird because Leica already launched a very similar cameraâ€¦the Leica X1. We will try to confirm the rumor as soon as possible!

The Sigma DP2, the â€œolderâ€ Sigma DP1 and the Leica X1 are the only large sensor compact and fixed lens cameras to date but both do use a prime lens only.

Looks like we'll have to make room for a new category on the forum!

Streetshooter · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2010, 05:51:28 PM »

If that camera really comes out, it could be a real contender. If Leica worked with them, then it just might be something to pay attention too......
Waiting anxiously but waiting....

peterb666 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2010, 06:37:36 PM »

It will be interesting to see the specs of this camera. If the lens is wide enough and is threaded (or has an adapter) for filters, it may make a useful pocket alternative to the Olympus E-P1.

As it is, I want a second body to take interchangeable lenses of a compact fixed-lens camera would be a real luxury. BTW, I am waiting (hopefully) for Olympus to announce a more up-market - as in serious - compact interchangeable lens camera - hopefully later this year.

Luke · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2010, 06:13:14 AM »

I am hot for this camera (at least to see it come out and learn more about it). I am in love with it in my mind!

cosinaphile · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2010, 08:29:09 AM »

this rumor has the highest confidence in being real according to their rating system

Centauri27 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2010, 12:28:40 PM »

Interesting idea, but I wonder if there is a large enough target market for this? To have m/43 quality without lens interchangeability seems so limiting. After all, how can you take advantage of the superior bokeh of the larger sensor if you're stuck with a 3x zoom? You might as well get the latest crop of superzooms like the Canon 210SX or Panasonic ZS7.

voyager · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2010, 02:16:57 PM »

Some new hints about the camera:

1) Yes there will be a Leica version of the Panasonic compact camera with FourThirds sensor. And of course it will be a little bit more expensive

2) The lens starts at 24mm and with f/2.0 (like the LX3!) but it has 3x zoom (unlike the 2.5x zoom on the LX3)

peterb666 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2010, 03:46:11 PM »

Quote from: voyager on July 01, 2010, 02:16:57 PM

Some new hints about the camera:

2) The lens starts at 24mm and with f/2.0 (like the LX3!) but it has 3x zoom (unlike the 2.5x zoom on the LX3)

I already want an interchangeable lens verions of the 24-72mm f/2 zoom. I would be in heaven.

If the specs turn out right and the camera / lens is not too bulky, this may be one for serious consideration as a backup camera.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2010, 03:52:10 PM »

i cannot believe it will be a f2 24-72 equiv lens with that sized sensor

but i hope im wrong

adash · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2010, 11:32:34 PM »

Having a constant aperture zoom lens does not contribute to compactness, you know. It's more likely to be F/2 wide to F/4 in the long end, or similar. If I were in Panasonic's shoes, I would seek a way to install the sensor side-wise, put the lens longitudinally inside the camera body, and allow only a small entrance pupil with a filter thread to be seen up front. Many P&S cameras are made this way and they also achieve a great compactness.

voyager · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2010, 12:18:10 AM »

Hopefully this won't succumb to the same failures that made the Sigma DP-1 so much less than it could have been. You may have a nice and big sensor but when you use a crappy lens with it then quality goes down the crapper.

adash · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2010, 12:36:40 AM »

I never knew that Sigma DP-1 had a crappy lens. Some people have been using such with very good results.

voyager · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2010, 05:31:06 PM »

It was one of the biggest complaints, partially fixed with the DP-2. The lens wasn't near as good of quality as the sensor demanded, leading to issues like purple fringing and horrible ghosting.

adash · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:07:05 PM »

Damn, man, their SLR lenses do not suffer from that, as far as I know, 30 F/1.4 and 50 F/1.4 are very good lenses from F/1.4, the more expensive zooms are quite fine too, again as far as I know, but this contraption, although being rather slow and of fixed focal length, being crappy, it just does not speak well for Sigma as a lensmaker. Makes no sense, you know.

voyager · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:16:04 PM »

Quote from: adash on July 02, 2010, 09:07:05 PM

Damn, man, their SLR lenses do not suffer from that, as far as I know, 30 F/1.4 and 50 F/1.4 are very good lenses from F/1.4, the more expensive zooms are quite fine too, again as far as I know, but this contraption, although being rather slow and of fixed focal length, being crappy, it just does not speak well for Sigma as a lensmaker. Makes no sense, you know.

Their SLR lenses aren't collapsible using a duo barrel design though.

adash · « **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:22:40 PM »

This does not matter. The optical layout has nothing to do with the mechanical construction. Being collapsible means that there is another helicoid which has to be rotated in order to move the lens elements in their ordinary working position. That should not affect lens operation. And as far as I know, the lens is collapsible, but it retracts and extends itself as a single unit, i.e. lens elements are not moved towards each other during the process. I saw this on a picture somewhere on the internet, but I'm not willing to search for it again now.

voyager · « **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:23:44 PM »

Quote from: adash on July 02, 2010, 09:22:40 PM

This does not matter. The optical layout has nothing to do with the mechanical construction. Being collapsible means that there is another helicoid which has to be rotated in order to move the lens elements in their ordinary working position. That should not affect lens operation. And as far as I know, the lens is collapsible, but it retracts and extends itself as a single unit, i.e. lens elements are not moved towards each other during the process. I saw this on a picture somewhere on the internet, but I'm not willing to search for it again now.

I know what you mean, but Sigma didn't anticipate a lot of possible errors with the construction. I'll try to find some links about the lens and it's inability to live up to it's potential.

voyager · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:26:18 PM »

It would seem I was mistaken, although flare is a problem for the lens, it wasn't what I was thinking of as it's a fixed focal length. Whatever camera I'm thinking of is a 24-70mm or something around there equivalent.

adash · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:30:03 PM »

Flare can also ruin lots of otherwise good photos.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2010, 11:20:32 PM »

for the sake of discussion consider

3 high end compact noninterchangeable lens machines with a fairly fast lens solution and a 3 x or near 3x zoom

ricoh gx 200 24-72 equiv 2.5 - 4.4

panny lx-3 24-60 equiv 2- 2.8

samsung ex1 24-72 equiv 1.8 - 2.4

these machines have 1.7 sensors and to achieve those lens speed zoom
range combinations they have lenses of a decent size in relation to the body the m4\3 sensor is more than 5 time the area

for m 43 to achieve a 3x zoom 28mm to 84 equiv the lens required in olympus is the collapsible kit zoom . i wonder how much they can shrink it in a compact camera design, i could imagine moving the sensor deeper into he body perhaps 1\2 an inch more or less

in any event making the lens shallower this way may make for a more elegant compact design but will speed s like f 2 be possible for a sensor the size of m4\3? i think this would require a front element 5 times the area as those on the compact cameras , in the case of the ricoh and samsung this is about the size of a us quarter, i dont have the lx3 in front of me but i remember it being of similar size

without getting into the math of it instead of the front element being the size of that in the kit zoom it is going to need to be close twice the diameter of the kit zoom front element.A little bigger than twice i suspect.... the kit zoom is 3.5- 5.6.... a 2 to 2.5 to whatever is gonna be a hunk o glass

popo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2010, 01:48:13 AM »

I think the rumoured fixed zoom lens could be made in a reasonably small size. Just to recap the rumour, the lens starts at 24mm f/2.0 and is 3x zoom. I will make the assumption that 24mm is "35mm equivalent" as otherwise it wouldn't be wide at all. So the lens is 12mm-36mm f/2.0-f/???. I'd guess it wont be constant aperture to make the design easier and smaller.

Specifically looking at the wide end for now, on my desk in front of me I have a Computar 12.5mm f/1.3 C-mount lens. When mounted on the E-P1, the length to front element is about the same as the Oly kit zoom in storage position, but it is narrower in body (no AF here). The Computar is slightly less wide angle (12.5mm vs 12mm) and its image circle doesn't quite cover the whole 4/3 sensor, but it is very close. Not forgetting of course the max aperture is much bigger. Ok, this is a prime, not a zoom and doesn't have all the AF and aperture control in it, but it does show that optically a suitable fast 12mm-ish lens doesn't need to be huge. In particular the front element is 40.5mm filter thread, just like the Oly kit zoom. The front element doesn't necessarily need to be much bigger.

Being a fixed lens, it has a potential advantage that the rear element can get closer to the sensor than with mounted designs, which can make wide angle design easier by reducing the need for retrofocus design. Design at longer focal lengths tends to be easy in comparison.

My only concern here is that, being a Panasonic design, will they put in lens stabilisation? It will be a bigger (longer) lens if they did, and I wouldn't want to be without stabilisation...

As a further thought, like m4/3 lenses in general, they could allow the lens to have some less than ideal characteristics to help simplify the design. Optical distortion and lateral CA are relatively easy to process out.

adash · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2010, 02:19:59 AM »

I totally agree, popo, and further:
The F-number is the focal length, divided by the entrance pupil size, that is the aperture stop as seen when looking at the front of the lens. At the widest end, 12mm, the entrance pupil will have to be 6mm in diameter, which is quite achievable, and the big glass that you see at the front is for peripheral brightness. Actually the front element can be shrunk considerably and the loss of peripheral brightness be filtered out in software.
What we are used to see are zooms that keep their point of focus when zooming, i.e. you don't have to refocus when zooming in or out. I guess that a P&S camera will not have this feature and thus omit a group or two from the optical layout.
Now, look at this picture:

The largest glass is the front element, the rest of the optics are quite tiny and if put side-wise inside the camera body, they will fit quite nicely, and the front group of elements may actually be facing front with a small 45-degree mirror between front group and zoom group (the one that moves when zooming). The lens barrel will be unnecessary and may be omitted, because the electromechanical elements may be situated where fit.

Ian Tindale · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2010, 10:58:48 AM »

I believe that that is one strategy adopted by the Olympus iS-series ZLR 135 film cameras. Zooming was accompanied by re-focusing automatically, and therefore there wasnâ€™t the requirement to build a helicoid that tracked focus as the user zoomed. You zoom, it refocuses.

I have a Kiron 30-80mm lens for Nikon that technically isnâ€™t a zoom, but is nevertheless a varifocal lens. If I move the zoom barrel, it leaves the image completely out of focus and requires manually refocusing. It enables the construction to be simpler and cleaner. Nice lens, fantastic bokeh, but a bit of a pain to use in truth.

voyager · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2010, 10:39:55 PM »

Looks like this thing is going to be released by the end of the month.

adash · « **Reply #24 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:02:32 PM »

Quote from: voyager on July 05, 2010, 10:39:55 PM

Looks like this thing is going to be released by the end of the month.

I never knew it would happen so soon. We are soon to see for sure.

Author Topic: Panasonic's first fixed lens Micro Four Thirds camera! (Read 4409 times)

Ian Tindale

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