The reason the X100 is superior is not down to aesthetics, though it certainly wins on that score. It is simply better in terms of ergonomics. GF3 is a menu-driven camera with one crappy wheel control. Fail.

There are tons of photogs out there putting expensive M-mount and other lenses on their small cameras looking for the compact Leica experience without having to buy a ridiculously overpriced Leica DSLR. The first MFT manufacturer to "get" this simple fact will be in for a deluge of orders.

dont you mean a leica rangefinder rather than slr for those looking for a compact leica experence ?
your correct in saying the first maker that "gets this" will own the market , so true.

im hoping the m mount gxr module from ricoh coming out later  this year  will have a great sensor and will provide that experence, the useability and interface of ricohs already leave most other cameramakers in the dust .

Quote from: cosinaphile on June 13, 2011, 07:34:52 PM

im hoping the m mount gxr module from ricoh coming out later  this year  will have a great sensor and will provide that experence, the useability and interface of ricohs already leave most other cameramakers in the dust .

I have no faith in Ricoh's model. Attaching the sensor to the lens in one module certainly helps them optimise optics for the smaller sensor -- yet another example of the different responses to this engineering challenge. However, it makes no sense from a marketing point of view. A lens is the most permanent part of a system and might easily find use on a camera 50 years later. The sensor is the most fleeting component an is outmoded almost immediately. Requiring the photographer to replace a lens each time one buys a sensor is close to madness. This system will die out in short order.

P.S. While upcoming modules with a mount and no lens help this situation, the price would have to be as low as a mount-only for MFT. Extraordinarily unlikely.

firstly
"The sensor is the most fleeting component an is outmoded almost immediately"
it is, and ricoh is the only maker that lets you keep the body and change the sensor.

your correct is saying how unfortunate it is to not be able to use lenses 50 yrs later with the  gxr system as implimented  but the introduction of an leica m mount module,coming out this autumn,  the system will no longer have that limitation.

But the truth is, that era is over for most lenses made today , the reason is because all modern lenses except for some leica, zeiss,voigtlander ,and a few pieces of russian glass uses crappy  manual focus or focus by wire and f stop by wire too. this almost guarantees they will never be able to be used in a legacy manner in the future. So reusing lenses made today by most makers will never be an option like it is with legacy glass we currently enjoy .
that makes it a moot issue ,imho

the gxr body is a superb instrument,imho, with a 960,000 pixel screen, an option for a high quality evf  like used in e-p2 . and  the ricoh s ,argueablely, have the finest, most customizable, and most intuitive and least obtrusive interface  of any camera made today.
4 very good lens sensor units are out, a "28-300" 1\2.3sensor, a '24-72' 1\1.7
and a 2  excellent aps-c sensored modules a "28"mm prime and a "50"mm macro
my faith in ricoh has not wavered , every machine they produce is a treasure, with
uncommon quality and usability .... so far

i hope they dont make the m mount aps-c sensor module too precious, the gxr body is a good deal at 349 us dollars
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edit to change wrong information  claiming focus by wire is widespread

as good as the ep1 and panny 20 1.7[ also own them] are, the gxr with the 28 and the 50 apsc modules  out performs it in image quality , high iso performance and dynamic range do to a solid performing  apsc sensors
but not by a huge amount , i had no idea  this was a comparison between them, however,

there is nothing daft about sensor lens swapouts with modules , it simply a novel way of changing what an interchangable camera  can do and be fitted with. Its kind of wasteful in a way,but to its credit, it allows matched sensor lens combos . which is very good,and it allow the camera being fitted with a new sensor which is a tremendous advantage to the current situiation which is to throw out the entire camera to get a brtter sensor

in the days of film cameras, imagine being stuck with exactly one type of
film to use for the life of the camera.  Imagine what photographers would say to the fact of never being able to use newly developed emulisions  as they were developed for the market?  thats what would be considered daft . but that is what essentially happened when digital interchangable slrs rangefinders and mirrorless were developed , the camera is created with one type of "film ", or sensor and this is what the camera is stuck with forever. someone with  a 40 year old rangefinder can load it with a modern high performance emulision film, imagine if they could only shoot with the lower grainier films of the past ?, todays digital  camera limitations of a single sensor forces this.digital shooters lost alot  when the "sensor" became fixed ["digital film"]    a "professional" digital nikon [please pardon the expression ] of 2 or 3 mp that would have cost 5000 usd 10 years ago can be had for a few hunderd dollars today... a swappable sensor would have retained value much better
some  nikon sony pentax  and canon lenses made today are  poor m f focus  and many are becoming f stop by wire ,no aperture ring... horrible. the tiny amount of af lenses  that still have a proper f stop ring and manual focus are currently all being replaced in short order...it seems soon  there will be none left.
as an example consider pentax lenses, of the slightly more that 30 or so lenses in production only 5 have apature rings and proper manual focus ,and thats 5 out of 9 special fa limited lenses meaning there very costly and
will always be relatively rare
hassablad yes you left out large format and field camera lenses!

finally you say the ricoh is essentially a disposable camera , but you have that  backwards...its the digital fixed sensors cameras  that are the disposable ones , the gxr is the only interchangable  camera that will be a cutting edge machine for as long as its in production

Quote from: cosinaphile on June 14, 2011, 08:06:59 PM

the gxr is the only interchangable  camera that will be a cutting edge machine for as long as its in production

Which, I wager, will be about five minutes. 

i really shouldnt .... but i cant resist.... the ricoh GXR, like the E-P1 was released  way back in  2009... the ep1 is no longer in production but ahem .... but the gxr is going strong ... in the fall it will get a huge boost in sales..when the leica m mount apsc module is released .....heres why... no company on the planet makes cameras with better menus.. manual controls,  and intuitive and customizable feature set than ricoh , they ,make machines  have many buttons and dials  logically configured and fully customizable .ricoh allows you full customised dial setting on the top dial , 3 of them !in addition to p s a m and scene

ricohs are  intuitive and as easy to use as any camera made [when the x 100 is fixed it will be its equal or better]
they are known for this and respected by shooters who know the difference.. and have an almost cult like devotion
in japan..

 the other apsc options for leica m are adapted solutions using sometimes poorly made [ i have more than a few!]contraption to rig m glass to bodys designed as an autofocus camera for different lenses. it works [ i love m mount on the ep1 and gf1]..... but imperfectly
the M mount module for the gxr is build from the ground up as an m mount apsc camera. it dosnt use an adapter ,it is a native mount apsc sensor unit that will mate with the gxr seamlessly[ ok there is a small seam]  and have a special processor specific to the needs of the new M module to interface with the gxr.

the sony and  samasung are also not worth mentioning, they are so clumsy and menu  and button and dial poor
by comparisonthe....the  only other native m mount cameras on the planet will be the leicas m8\ 8.2 and m9
the epson rdc=1 costing about 7000 and about 3000 us dollars respectively

i know you would be thrilled if the gxr fails...different people are amused by different things.
 but i forsee strong sales for the next 3-5 years until a gxr II with a new engine, new sd card compatability if necessary, a new lcd or oled screen if the 960,000 dot screen starts seeming old ,and of course perfect backward compatability with all  previous modules , cause this is ricoh im talking about

Quote from: cosinaphile on June 14, 2011, 08:06:59 PM

the gxr is the only interchangable  camera that will be a cutting edge machine for as long as its in production

Which, I wager, will be about five minutes. 

I don't see a reason why you should mock with other people's opinions. I believe it is a great camera, and cosina may be right that it has the unique at least theoretical advantage of being able to bring cutting edge sensor technology to previous owners.
BTW, a few brand new features were made available to GXR via a software update. It may seem insignificant, but there are no cases that I can think of this happening with other brands.
There was a thread in Other cameras about it, you could continue the GXR discussion there.

adash can you move the friendly exchange i was having with the micro 4\3 owner from ireland to this new thread?
it prob 8-10 posts
its better here that hijacking that important thread

i think you can see i am playful but civil in my last few posts

ill be good

lisandra, i remember that
that was a rumor before it was known that the  new mount module would ,in fact, be leica M, someone even photoshopped it,lol
last year , i think photo rumors even had a poll

also there was a concurrent rumor it would be pentax, i couldnt believe how many shooters wanted that, it really stirred a lot of feeling in the folks who love pentax mount

if you get it over here , it will be fine


edit: i see it now ....excellent job adash , gratzi 

lisandra, i remember that
that was a rumor before it was known that the  new mount module would ,in fact, be leica M, someone even photoshopped it,lol
last year , i think photo rumors even had a poll

also there was a concurrent rumor it would be pentax, i couldnt believe how many shooters wanted that, it really stirred a lot of feeling in the folks who love pentax mount

the ricoh is the poor mans leica!!

the ricoh GXR, like the E-P1 was released  way back in  2009... the ep1 is no longer in production but ahem .... but the gxr is going strong

You cannot be so obtuse as to fail to realise that subsequent models have been released by Olympus.

i know you would be thrilled if the gxr fails...different people are amused by different things.

I think the Ricoh will fail in the market. It is simply an opinion. It is not a judgement on the ergonomics or any other factor that I cannot comment on, having never used one. It is a comment on the wacky sensor-swapping waste of the system, the lack of fast lenses, etc. etc. I have no personal interest in this one way or another.

Can you not see that my comment was a joke? The enormous smiling emoticon was a hint.

You continue to completely misjudge me. I think I will have to stop responding to any of your posts, which seem specifically designed to completely miss the point.

Quote from: cosinaphile on June 15, 2011, 06:52:38 PM

the ricoh GXR, like the E-P1 was released  way back in  2009... the ep1 is no longer in production but ahem .... but the gxr is going strong

You cannot be so obtuse as to fail to realise that subsequent models have been released by Olympus.

Quote from: cosinaphile on June 15, 2011, 06:52:38 PM

i know you would be thrilled if the gxr fails...different people are amused by different things.

I think the Ricoh will fail in the market. It is simply an opinion. It is not a judgement on the ergonomics or any other factor that I cannot comment on, having never used one. It is a comment on the wacky sensor-swapping waste of the system, the lack of fast lenses, etc. etc. I have no personal interest in this one way or another.

Can you not see that my comment was a joke? The enormous smiling emoticon was a hint.

You continue to completely misjudge me. I think I will have to stop responding to any of your posts, which seem specifically designed to completely miss the point.

firstly, subsequent models will always be introduced ...so what ? im contrasting the longevity of 2 models released back in 2009, my beloved e-p1 and the gxr ....

the gxr, which you jokingly claimed would "last about 5 minutes"
is still in production and the ep1 is not . i find nothing obtuse about mentioning this single fact .
[ btw it would have been nice of olympus to change the sensor in at least  one  the four subsiquent models, ya think ]

 you know i simply mentioned the low price of the gxr and my admiration for it as a camera and a concept and also
the gxr m mount module , which is an extremely exciting product that you , as is your perogative, wish to dismiss as an  expensive equivilent to mass market m adapter, which common sense tells it is much much more than.

you are calling the camera a fail , using words like wacky to describe one of the finest inexpensive camera currently made ..joking it will last 5 minutes [ but the sentiment is real?]  Now i believe you are completely and utterly wrong about this, and im saying so as politely and with as much decorums as i can muster.

how can you say i interpet this as a personal vendetta ?? you are ragging  the gxr and im defending it 
my defense comes from experence with the camera , and acknowlegement of its excellence , and the profundity of the fact that it will be the only native  m mount in the world except for leicas [ i think the 6 mp epson rd-1 is out of production]
the "wacky" feature of the gxr swapping system is what will make this possible , even if ricoh prices this lensless
module at 1000 us dollars it will make the combo sensor combo 1349 us dollars making it a real alternative
to a 7 thousand dollar leica m 9
i really hope they dont price it at 1000 us dollars, that would be really stupis if they did , im hoping it will 5 or 600 us dollars.... that would be fair 

"close to madness"..."This system will die out in short order."...."daft".."fail".." wacky" these are the comments you have made ... in answer to the first comment in this new thread , which is simply a bit of praise for the ricoh.and hope for a good sensor in the m module
all subsiquent thing  i said werre answers to your attacks and mocking of that camera system, nothing more
 





 

take a look back at your posts and see who is misjudging  who , i respectfully suggest ....

all the best