It's odd. A lot of people on this forum are used to tossing down big money on gear. Often, just for the fun of it. Many of you buy every new incremental camera from, say Olympus, even when these models offer almost no practical improvement on the previous, and maintain the same flaws in design and ergonomics. Then along comes the NEX7 -- an absolute slayer of a camera, with innovation written all over it -- and people tut that it is too expensive. Well, I suppose that innovation costs money!

The size argument is also a non-starter for me. MFT cameras are also too big, since combined with any sort of decent lens kit they are not pocketable... just like the NEX. I do agree that Olympus and Panasonic have done a better job of releasing smaller lenses, but it's taken them three years to get there -- and I still don't understand why some are so big. Pentax has much nicer, higher-quality, better-IQ lenses that are also small... even though some cover the full 35mm frame!

I am no Sony fan but I think they have hit a home-run here. Certainly so for those who want a do-everything body for their collection of M mount (or "whatever" mount) lenses.

i love everything about this new nex too but with a proviso that i learned  of a few minutes ago ...

the previous bodies of the  nex series were a real turn off to me for several reasons , the absurdity of matching dimunitive bodies, almost slivers of cameras, with enormous,  coke can sized kit zooms, or even larger primes .
the interface and control systems crippled, it seemed, to make them more appealing to the novice or shooter moving from p&s to apsc, important controls buried beneath layers of menus. the lens line woefully incomplete and seemingly built to be unweildy and large even as they were mirrorless camera optical formulas.sheesh!

and the build ? cheap feeling in the hand , like so many recent designs from panasonic and others.and the older nex cams had no built in evf...a sin they shared with rangefinder styled micro 4\3.
but this new nex fixes all these issues , lovely to look at , an aesthetic match for the lens ,size wise, proper dials and buttons,  a strong build , an excellent evf in the body !the ability , like m4\3 to mount legacy glass, with the bonus of focus peaking to boot.............and 24 amazing megapixels on that shiny  new aps-c sensor... [ raise the lights,cue the choral music!]

what could go wrong ??
ill tell you what went wrong .....i hope it turns out im wrong, but i see what i see, ...............the sensors just not great above iso 1600, is it pixel density , or lousy processing ? i dont know , but ill tell you this, since being spoiled by the high iso performance of the fujifilm  x100, im expecting to see excellent   iso 800-1600.. really good  3200.....a suprisingly useable iso 6400 file , and a 12,800 iso file that makes me say "wow i cant believe this was shot at 12800"clarity, color fidility, absolutely 0% banding ,nice,i expect new apsc sensors to display equal or greater noise profiles  not pack the sensor with pixels at the expense of image quality

 .......the new  sony 24mp sensor from what i see at dp review, is simply a bit of a letdown , and i really want to love this product,
indoor shots at iso 1250 are severely overprocessed fro noise supression
they remind me of files for a high quality point and shoot  with noise supression on high areas look like watercolor drawings  at times the processing is clearly apparant, and at iso 1250??? not really acceptable
the files dont  look aweful , but they could be better imho , its acceptable  at 3200 too, but  that sin of sins, banding is clearly seen at 6400 and  renders 12800 unusable me thinks.
i think the files out of a gh2 or g3 blow it away at this iso level

maybe the nex 7 will get more out of the sensor that  the a77, im hoping it will
because whats the point of 24 mp if their lousy?

even so this camera is remarkable, i commend sony for their effort and packing all that camera goodness inside a "rangefinder" styled body.... when the cameras reviewed and samples show the detail id expect from a 24 mp file  with controlled noise  ,i would not mind owning one for its utility with legacy glass.

Quote from: Peter Hovmand on August 28, 2011, 06:19:04 AM

not true, rparpar, my E-P2 with Panasonic 20mm is indeed pocketable!

I guess I have smaller pockets or just don't like expensive gear bulging out of my clothes.

Besides, I said "combined with any sort of decent lens kit". One 40mm equivalent lens is not a "lens kit" to me. So I guess what I said was true after all. Whew! For a moment there you had me worried.

A point'n'shoot with a zoom is pocketable. An SLR isn't. And neither is an MFT/NEX/whatever unless you want to seriously compromise your ability to use multiple lenses, in which case why get an interchangeable lens camera in the first place?

Well, I wear Blue Jeans, and a E-P1 with 20 is not pocketable.. I would have to wear cargo pants or pants with pockets that can expand a bit...
My wife's Panay ZX5 will fit, but tightly in Jeans.

It's odd. A lot of people on this forum are used to tossing down big money on gear. Often, just for the fun of it. Many of you buy every new incremental camera from, say Olympus, even when these models offer almost no practical improvement on the previous, and maintain the same flaws in design and ergonomics. Then along comes the NEX7 -- an absolute slayer of a camera, with innovation written all over it -- and people tut that it is too expensive. Well, I suppose that innovation costs money!

You will continue to be baffled by the extremely flawed reasoning on this forum from all of the foolhardy fans of panoly. A reason why I choose not to post reasonable responses. I now only use the forum as entertainment to see what crazy justification people are using to keep their chosen brand "above" the others. It really is hilarious, you'll continue to see this over, and over, and over, and... Well you get my point! Good to see there are others out there who think likewise...

I have not noticed big deals of fanboism on this forum, candyspan6.
Nobody is really into "crazy justification", we are actually using a system, taking photos, sharing them here, discussing gear and its strong and weak points, and moving forward.
I even know of someone who deleted his account because he could not stand the amount of bashing Olympus was getting on this forum.
So, candyspan6, please do not use harsh words for describing the forum or its members, as they are obviously untrue and may be insulting to the regulars here.
Thank you.

Quote from: candyspan6 on September 04, 2011, 06:53:07 PM

Quote from: rparmar on August 28, 2011, 05:42:17 AM

It's odd. A lot of people on this forum are used to tossing down big money on gear. Often, just for the fun of it. Many of you buy every new incremental camera from, say Olympus, even when these models offer almost no practical improvement on the previous, and maintain the same flaws in design and ergonomics. Then along comes the NEX7 -- an absolute slayer of a camera, with innovation written all over it -- and people tut that it is too expensive. Well, I suppose that innovation costs money!

You will continue to be baffled by the extremely flawed reasoning on this forum from all of the foolhardy fans of panoly. A reason why I choose not to post reasonable responses. I now only use the forum as entertainment to see what crazy justification people are using to keep their chosen brand "above" the others. It really is hilarious, you'll continue to see this over, and over, and over, and... Well you get my point! Good to see there are others out there who think likewise...

I can understand your point of view. Why buy a camera with a smaller sensor that costs the same or even more ?

I bought the E-P1 because it is smaller than a DSLR, it looks cool and it produces wonderful jpegs.
And true, sometimes I want a camera which produces less noise.

I'm not a pro and for me the E-P1 is awesome. But for someone else (like you) it might not.
I can understand that a pro wants a bigger sensor, more and cheaper lenses etc...

I still think an E-P1 with kitlens for 350 dollars is very good value for the money.
Ofcourse your  Nikon 7000 or wathever is the  better camera. 
Everyone has his own reasons, style and preferences
I'm very happy with my cool retro E-P1.

I respect your opinion. It would be nice that you respect our opinions.

Having said this, I think the NEX7 is a very interesting camera.
But I think more and more affordable lenses are needed to convince me.

It is the SIZE, not the cost... many of us, (OK, at least me) got rid of the bigger, heaver, harder to carry 3 lens large camera bag kit, in favor of a smaller, just as high IQ for my purposes, and smaller/lighter 4 lens Waist Pack kit. Pentax K20D/Grip, 16-45 f/4, 105mm Macro, 70-300, to a Panasonic G3, 20mm, 14-42mm 55mm, 135mm... the G3 blows away the K20D in the High ISO range, no contest.. and the DR is marginal at best for a slightly smaller sensor and new firmware.


I haven't really read many, if any "Fan Boy" rants on this forum. And I try to at least read all the new posts and keep up with conversations even though I may not have a reply...

To me, ranting about ranting is just as a FanBoy rant.... it is a rant to pull the thread off topic....

Why don't we do this....
Go out and take some photo's, post them in the area they need to be, talk about the photo's you posted with some gear talk if you want, and move on. Help others with Technique (not gear related, no need really) to get similar results... be blessed that you could help someone get better with their camera of choice.

Share interesting blogs you found, or other photographers you admire etc....

Discuss gear, without the bashing (No need for that: Really).. we all pick gear for our own reasons... And to someone else who uses other gear for their reasons, that doesn't mean others have inferior gear. (That is a rather newbie attitude IMO)

Now, let's get back to the Sony NEX-7 Sensor dialog.....

It's odd. A lot of people on this forum are used to tossing down big money on gear. Often, just for the fun of it. Many of you buy every new incremental camera from, say Olympus, even when these models offer almost no practical improvement on the previous, and maintain the same flaws in design and ergonomics. Then along comes the NEX7 -- an absolute slayer of a camera, with innovation written all over it -- and people tut that it is too expensive. Well, I suppose that innovation costs money!

The size argument is also a non-starter for me. MFT cameras are also too big, since combined with any sort of decent lens kit they are not pocketable... just like the NEX. I do agree that Olympus and Panasonic have done a better job of releasing smaller lenses, but it's taken them three years to get there -- and I still don't understand why some are so big. Pentax has much nicer, higher-quality, better-IQ lenses that are also small... even though some cover the full 35mm frame!

I am no Sony fan but I think they have hit a home-run here. Certainly so for those who want a do-everything body for their collection of M mount (or "whatever" mount) lenses.

Take my honest advice...

You aren't going to get very far with that. Or make many friends.