Author Topic: Nikon mirrorless system (Read 5761 times)

tamoio · « **on:** March 22, 2011, 09:04:14 AM »

Is anyone remotely curious about this soon-to-be-released camera?

nptremain · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:05:51 AM »

From what I can gather looking at all the rumours flying around, it will be based on the Fuji X100 as Nikon has shared it's bodies with Fuji in the past and are reciprocating.

I guess we won't truly know until it comes out, but being a previous Nikon user, I will keep my eyes peeled!

Peter.

count_zero · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:45:14 AM »

I'm pretty sure we can say it won't be full frame, nor have a motor in body for FX lenses. Not sure how much more compact it will be with DX lenses vs. D5000. Unless they introduce a new lens mount. Then we can hear about how wonderfully innovative Nikon is.

voyager · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:35:27 PM »

I don't understand the 2.5x crop factor. It seems like too much.

popo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:44:32 AM »

The rumour as I understand is is that it will be positioned as a "pro compact", not a DSLR replacement which I think they'll leave to their existing lines to cover. A new lens mount is a definite requirement, unless they have something truly revolutionary up their sleeve.

I'm all for the smaller sensor if it becomes true. It should enable smaller lenses and smaller bodies, and probably lower cost too. All factors I think are holding back adoption of mirrorless systems by some people. Also they'll end up in a slightly different area than the existing players so could tap that extra region, at the cost of missing out on those really needing a big sensor. Even at 2.5x crop factor, it'll still be much bigger than the vast majority of fixed lens cameras.

tamoio · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:52:02 AM »

Quote from: voyager on March 22, 2011, 08:35:27 PM

I don't understand the 2.5x crop factor. It seems like too much.

Thats my feeling too, it just seems inane to go this route instead of 4/3. I thought I read that C-mount mp lenses will cover the format without vignetting?

adash · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2011, 01:29:53 PM »

Quote

I thought I read that C-mount mp lenses will cover the format without vignetting?

They should, but also the registration distance should allow infinity focus with C-mount.

candyspan6 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2011, 03:00:47 PM »

I am seeing the funniest replies on this thread

. People who seem loath bigger sensors in favor of their smaller m4/3 sensors are now criticizing the rumored 2.5 crop factor by saying it's too small. Hilarious! First of all, none of us know if this rumor is true, or not. If it is, and Nikon has decided to beat Olympus and Panny at their own game, then it's good for everyone who decided to wait to buy into a system that promises a smaller form factor, interchangeable lenses, and lower price. Most of which Panolympus has failed to deliver.

I hope it is a 2.5 crop factor, I mean it's only .5 smaller than 4/3. Anyone who loves m4/3 should love this news, isn't it what everyone wants? They've already trounced other companies with their cameras, nothing wrong with being big and revolutionary. This could truely be that professional quality pocketable camera everyone wants. m4/3 and other mirrorless camera systems are hardly pocketable, maybe Nikon has seen what these other companies do not!

voyager · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2011, 05:04:06 PM »

Quote from: candyspan6 on March 23, 2011, 03:00:47 PM

I am seeing the funniest replies on this thread . People who seem loath bigger sensors in favor of their smaller m4/3 sensors are now criticizing the rumored 2.5 crop factor by saying it's too small. Hilarious! First of all, none of us know if this rumor is true, or not. If it is, and Nikon has decided to beat Olympus and Panny at their own game, then it's good for everyone who decided to wait to buy into a system that promises a smaller form factor, interchangeable lenses, and lower price. Most of which Panolympus has failed to deliver.

I hope it is a 2.5 crop factor, I mean it's only .5 smaller than 4/3. Anyone who loves m4/3 should love this news, isn't it what everyone wants? They've already trounced other companies with their cameras, nothing wrong with being big and revolutionary. This could truely be that professional quality pocketable camera everyone wants. m4/3 and other mirrorless camera systems are hardly pocketable, maybe Nikon has seen what these other companies do not!

I actually like larger sensors though, the 2x crop is really my limit.

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2011, 05:13:45 PM »

If Nikon can keep the price down, (even $100.00 lower than Oly/Panny) and consider a margin for a long term profit share, and introduce a good set of start up lenses, a few consumer, s few prosumer, a few wide to normal faster primes, then they will have a larger starting base from day one.

Time will tell

peterb666 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2011, 05:30:19 PM »

The rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera is the Kenko camera which will almost certainly appear under the Pentax brand name too. This isn't as radical as you may think as Nikon have used equipment by other makers before, notably Sanyo and Cosina.

Unfortunately, the sensor is not a 2.5x crop but a 1/2.3" sensor. Virtually all the lenses for this camera will be current production c-mount lenses (ideal to pick up cheap 1/2 c-mount leses for CCTV cameras).

http://blog.digitalrev.com/tag/kenkos-interchangeable-lens-camera/

The crop factor is 5.6x.

voyager · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2011, 05:36:26 PM »

Where did you get that information about Nikon using it?

Panther · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2011, 06:32:38 PM »

Rumor conversations are always the most interesting

tamoio · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2011, 06:35:35 PM »

Quote from: candyspan6 on March 23, 2011, 03:00:47 PM

I am seeing the funniest replies on this thread . People who seem loath bigger sensors in favor of their smaller m4/3 sensors are now criticizing the rumored 2.5 crop factor by saying it's too small. Hilarious! First of all, none of us know if this rumor is true, or not. If it is, and Nikon has decided to beat Olympus and Panny at their own game, then it's good for everyone who decided to wait to buy into a system that promises a smaller form factor, interchangeable lenses, and lower price. Most of which Panolympus has failed to deliver.

I hope it is a 2.5 crop factor, I mean it's only .5 smaller than 4/3. Anyone who loves m4/3 should love this news, isn't it what everyone wants? They've already trounced other companies with their cameras, nothing wrong with being big and revolutionary. This could truely be that professional quality pocketable camera everyone wants. m4/3 and other mirrorless camera systems are hardly pocketable, maybe Nikon has seen what these other companies do not!

You miss the point completely.

The world doesn't really need more formats, unless there is a really compelling reason for it. Mirrorless 4/3 filled a need. From my perspective Nikon is just doing this to get into mirrorless and gambling that at this stage they can possibly swing some momentum toward their own proprietary sensor format.

It seems like an odd time for Nikon to try getting innovative, Nikon to my mind has always been conservative and derivative.

peterb666 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2011, 12:43:23 AM »

Quote from: voyager on March 23, 2011, 05:36:26 PM

Where did you get that information about Nikon using it?

Oh, it is complete supposition but you might note that the Kenko system includes 2 adapters, one for Nikon F mount and the other for the very old T-mount system. The latter isn't quite as silly as it sounds as T-mount was used on some cine cameras and of course c-mount is a cine mount itself.

Now Kenko is part of the Hoya group who owns Pentax yet there is no Pentax adapter? How strange.

The other thing to note is that Nikon do not fabricate their own sensors and no one (AFIK) currenty has a 2.5x crop factor sensor. Nikon generally uses Sony sensors although they have used Kodak sensors in their early dSLRs.

Anyway, that's my story.

popo · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2011, 10:05:25 AM »

I can't see Nikon using C-mount at all. I'm not aware of any standard in C-mount giving you AF, aperture or other controls. So that would need to be added as an extension, in which case you might as well make a new mount anyway. Never liked screw thread mounts, give me a bayonet any time. C-mount just wont sell except as bargain basement fun for the odd old school photo geek, ideal for Kenko but not for any brand worth keeping its name. I also wouldn't read much into the mount adapter availability as an indicator.

Nikon has to use either an existing mount, or a new mount. There's no business benefit in them joining m4/3 as they can not really get beyond fighting for the same pool that Olympus and Panasonic are in already. By adopting a smaller sensor they will move into a new area and possibly attract a different customer set. Again don't forget Nikon already have a successful SLR range and that doesn't need radical fixing. A 1.5x-2x crop sensor might be too close to that, so smaller would help differentiate both between their lines and the competition too.

voyager · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2011, 11:27:58 PM »

Most people don't even know what the C-mount is.

peterb666 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2011, 04:32:40 AM »

Nikon won't be using their existing mount. The Nikon F mount has a 46.5mm flange to sensor offset and that is hardly conducive to a compact camera. By comparison, c-mount is 17.52 mm, Sony’s E mount around 18 mm, MFT 20mm, Samsung NX 25.5mm, and Leica M mount 27.8mm. They will use something shorter with an adapter.

Maybe we will see a Nikon S-mount type arrangement where the mount moves to focus the lens instead of a helicoid. I doubt it as it is unlikely that moving the whole mass of the lens would result in quick focusing.

popo · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2011, 04:39:38 AM »

Quote from: peterb666 on March 25, 2011, 04:32:40 AM

Maybe we will see a Nikon S-mount type arrangement where the mount moves to focus the lens instead of a helicoid. I doubt it as it is unlikely that moving the whole mass of the lens would result in quick focusing.

I have wondered in the past about doing a variation of that, moving the sensor to focus. Same difference. The biggest problem I see with that is the shift distance would vary a lot with focal length. Longer focal length lenses would be practically unusable in this arrangement, and you're going to need very fine adjustment on wide angle lenses.

peterb666 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2011, 04:41:08 AM »

Quote from: popo on March 24, 2011, 10:05:25 AM

Nikon has to use either an existing mount, or a new mount. There's no business benefit in them joining m4/3 as they can not really get beyond fighting for the same pool that Olympus and Panasonic are in already.

Agree that Nikon won't join MFT but not for the same reason. Nikon would bring with it a substantial number of people who would only buy Nikon. Likewise Canon could do the same. Nikon and Canon can sell in numbers to create their own proprietary mounts. That's why you won't see Nikon in the MFT camp.

peterb666 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2011, 04:45:31 AM »

Quote from: popo on March 25, 2011, 04:39:38 AM

I have wondered in the past about doing a variation of that, moving the sensor to focus. Same difference. The biggest problem I see with that is the shift distance would vary a lot with focal length. Longer focal length lenses would be practically unusable in this arrangement, and you're going to need very fine adjustment on wide angle lenses.

Moving the sensor rather than the mount makes more sense in a digital camera. You are quite right that the distance to be moved would vary a lot from lens to lens. Nikon overcame that problem with the s-mount by providing an internal and external bayonet with only the internal bayonet having focus control. Longer lenses used their own focusing helicoid.

This arrangment would be far too complex and expensive to arrange. The old s-mount cameras were very expensive in their day so wasn't an issue. Also, cameras sold in much smaller numbers.

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2011, 04:48:12 AM »

Yes AF would be slow, And the close focus would the limited. I did not like it on the Contax III I owned a few years back.

popo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2011, 05:02:09 AM »

Quote from: peterb666 on March 25, 2011, 04:41:08 AM

Agree that Nikon won't join MFT but not for the same reason. Nikon would bring with it a substantial number of people who would only buy Nikon. Likewise Canon could do the same. Nikon and Canon can sell in numbers to create their own proprietary mounts. That's why you won't see Nikon in the MFT camp.

I agree with that. What I mentioned earlier wasn't supposed to be an only reason, but one contributing factor amongst many. The benefits to them of having their own mount would likely outweigh joining an existing one, especially if it is true they are going for something a bit different.

tadeobiologo · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2011, 05:39:20 AM »

I think that the most important thing is: does this (or any other) system covers your needs??
if it has decent picture quality and a selection of decent and affordable lenses it will surely be a hit.
MFT is a very young system and is developing quickly with lots of new lenses some of which are promising.
but there are some compromises on the size, for example Dynamic range of the sensors drops quickly with size and bokeh is related with the real size of the aperture on the lens so smaller lenses tend to have largest DOF which makes them less attractive to some applications like portraiture.

peterb666 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:29:06 PM »

Quote from: tadeobiologo on March 25, 2011, 05:39:20 AM

but there are some compromises on the size, for example Dynamic range of the sensors drops quickly with size

I don't agree here. The MFT sensor is not so much smaller than the 1.5 and 1.6 crop sensors and with the current generation of these sensors around 16mp and 18mp sensors, there is no reason why you cannot have a MFT sensor of around 12mp that provides even better properties. The real issue is that the Panasonic sensors currently used are a generation or two behind others in noise and dynamic range.

Author Topic: Nikon mirrorless system (Read 5761 times)

tamoio

tamoio

Panther

tamoio

Related Topics

Recent Topics

Recent Gallery