Author Topic: Fujian to enter "mirror-less" SLR market (Read 3310 times)

Em5 Pete · « **on:** October 05, 2011, 06:19:25 AM »

Fuji to enter "mirror-less" market with LARGE sensor camera

cosinaphile · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2011, 07:42:31 AM »

very little info at this point.... i trust fuji will not mess with success and create something very like the contax g1 but with focus rings on lenses in fact i hope they create lenses that work like the first generation of nikon af lenses , these had true manual focus along side af and a mechanixal f stop range that could be controlled by the body too....id like to see fuji improve its already excellent sensor to the level of the sony nex5n or even beyond keep the hybrid vf with a mild optical zoom like the contax g had and use evf for other lenses of any focal length

same perfected controls like leicas x1 and fuji x 100 a tighter less knock prone exp comp dial... apsc sensor backlit with big sensor wells and 16 to18 mp with a 8 or 9 mp combine pixel high iso mode for clean 25,600 iso , some world class lenses built to the same standard as the x 100, no or a very light aa filter 3 stop and and IR filters in hardware[ FILTER TO CREATE IR IMAGES ] a really big buffer and lots of computational prowess[[missing on the x 100]

at launch i want a[equiv] 24-90 zoom 3.5 to 4.5 and tiny!... a 24mm f2 a 35mm 1.4or 1.7 . a 50mm 1,4 ..a 12mm or 15 mm 18mm 2.8 prime.... an 85mm 1.8 or 105mm 1.8 or 2.4 a . a 50 -200 zoom 2.8 -4.. and official adapter for other mounts especially rf mountsi want these lenses small and elegant

focus peaking feature for mf legacy lenses , a bigger battery using a slightly bigger grip fior 1\2 its volume...i want slr battery WH ratings

black body [and silver too] ... a small accessory flash to suppliment the must have built in flash small and elegant like the flashes contax made for the g series ..dual sd card slots ... decent video with manual control and stero inputs

thats really all i want....do i ask too much

if fuji does this is will be unstockable in any camera store for the next decade ..... as it stands the x 100 cannot be stocked , it sells out in hours anywhere its listed this is going on 7 months with no end in sight... i hope fuji continues to be guided by angels instead of clueless
souless bean counters and marketing 'experts" ... fuji has the oppotournity to change the entire direction of camera manufacture and design
so that even clueless makers like nikon and canon will be forced to rethink their stilted imagination and product line

edit: in comparing the high iso performance of the x 100 against the excellent sensor of the sony nex5n i revise my expectations written above , the nex 5 n does not exceed the high iso performance of the x 100 sensor imho as i thought it did this conclusion drawn from looking at the dp review sample just posted in the sony review

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2011, 08:09:33 AM »

Well, you don't ask for too much

The 4/3 rumors suggests it will/may be larger than a FF sensor.

I hope not.. That would give the Leica L2 a run. Not much so for the Phase-One/Mamiya.

I'd like to see a FF or APS-C also.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2011, 09:59:24 AM »

ihop it isnt larger than full frame i want a walkabout camera

panzerfaustnl · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2011, 10:23:32 AM »

The 200mp Hasselblad sensor

voyager · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2011, 10:47:27 AM »

A large sensor mirrorless? Well that's interesting. The naming of it is terrible though, the X-S1 looks like the Canon XSi.

count_zero · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2011, 01:23:10 PM »

I hope it's not $20,000. An X-PAN double wide full frame sensor would be awesome.

lisandra · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2011, 03:59:46 PM »

Cosinaphile if you ever start making cameras let me know. I'll buy one.
This all sounds expensive, body and lens wise. You think they'll make a new sensor size? Like APS H? Fuller frame?

RT_Panther · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2011, 04:16:42 PM »

Some thought the x100 would fail......

We shall see here too....

cosinaphile · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2011, 04:45:26 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on October 05, 2011, 03:59:46 PM

Cosinaphile if you ever start making cameras let me know. I'll buy one.
This all sounds expensive, body and lens wise. You think they'll make a new sensor size? Like APS H? Fuller frame?

if i built that camera ,lisandra , id build an extra sharp portrait length macro that started at 1.7 for very shallow dof at normal distances
and special design and constructionfor tremendously deep dof at closest macro distances , all metal ...real mf and mechanical\automatic diaphram, just for you!

cosinaphile · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2011, 04:47:47 PM »

Quote from: panzerfaustnl on October 05, 2011, 10:23:32 AM

The 200mp Hasselblad sensor

lol imagine!??

tamoio · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2011, 11:13:53 AM »

The rumors from Fuji are adding to my theory that the micro 4/3 "standard" is an anomaly. Camera makers don't want standards or shared anything, it makes the marketing division uncomfortable since anything even incrementally different can be spun by marketing into the "next big thing". I wish them luck, there are already a few large sensor cameras out there and if they are really going to aim for the top tier its going to be pricey. If I was a working still photographer and money was no object I would buy a Red EPIC, DMSC! . . .and thats what Fuji would really be up against (not to mention CANIKON).

cosinaphile · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2011, 12:04:48 PM »

hopefully they will make it affordable , they are nt going to realize their expectations to shortly become number 3 camera maker in the world by making a pricey botique item, an apsc or apsh would be fine at under 1500 dollars with a 3.5 to 4.5 kit zoom or a pancake prime of at least 2.5

they would be crazy not to use the tremendously sucessful x 100 as a step stone it this products genesis

rip out the lens ...put a mount and some contacts... slightly larger grip for a 3600 mAh battery lose the optical finder or make it zoom plus evf
im seeing it possible to create asub 1500 dollar gem here

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2011, 02:04:50 PM »

We are still hoping for a X100 with interchangeable lenses.... It will need a duel VF if we want a Zoom finder similar to the Contax G1/2, for 28-100 lenses/zooms in that range.
For shorter lenses... EFV, for longer lenses... EFV....

Or just a nice EFV with a DOF scale in set by the F/stop & Focus point... a simple data set to have built-in the cameras firmware.

But, the X-S1 may be a good seller... it is replacing the HC250 or something like that... An SLR sized Maga-Zoom with a 2/3" sensor.

lisandra · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2011, 07:50:14 PM »

Quote

Some thought the x100 would fail......

I was one of those. I still cant understand the reasoning behind buying this.

tamoio · « **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 2011, 08:17:07 PM »

Quote from: RT_Panther on October 05, 2011, 04:16:42 PM

Some thought the x100 would fail......

. . .define succeed

I've still never seen one around someone's neck. I see M9s pretty regularly and every flavor of Canikon, I even occasionally see an Olympus Pen.

I think if it was really a success there would be a raft of imitations from all the other camera makers, its been a year and I don't see any X100 clones yet.

count_zero · « **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2011, 10:04:35 PM »

That's a bit like saying Lamborghini isn't a success because you never see them besides in Dubai, Monaco, or LA. The X100 is the Lamborghini for street shooters who want an auto focus fixed lens always at the ready camera. How many Leica X1's have you seen hanging around necks? A better question is how many X1's were returned to the store, or sold on ebay after the X100 was released?

rogerml · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2011, 10:32:11 PM »

Personally, I'm a 'facts' kind of person. Facts are that 80 thousands FinePix X100 have been shipped from the factory so far this year. Fact is, that the camera are still scarce when asked for by potential customers. Where I live in Thailand, in a city of close to half a million people, and hundreds of thousands tourists visiting in a year, shops are almost completely in vain of getting this camera from the importers. Consequently, if I would like to see to see this camera around someone's neck, I put the one I own around my neck, and look in the mirror. What I see is, apart from the X100, a big smile. :-)

cosinaphile · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2011, 10:53:16 PM »

success?.... fuji can not stock these anywhere, the sell out in minutes , going on 7 months after release ,according to thom hogan, fuji has sold over 300,000 units so far, and cannot keep up with demand ...its files out do any apsc camera ive seen imho , its dynamic range.. its in camera raw conversions , it flawless white balance and perfect everytime, fill flash outdoes any dslr nikon camera.. its noise profile is better than the nex 5n.. better than the nikon d7000, the jpegs are beautiful , rivaled only by the jpeg prowess of the olympus engine, the lens is crazy sharp wide open iso 3200 is superb and 6400 looks great too

dont take my word for it ,

lumenous landscape
"For photographers of a certain age, picking up the Fuji X100 for the 1st time will bring a tear to your eye. This is the way that cameras used to be made, and only a few still are. Yes – the X100 has a real aperture ring.....

The camera falls nicely to hand, as car reviewers are wont to say. It feels right and because of the superior build and materials quality feels worth every penny of its $1,200 list price...

.There is a distance scale along the bottom of the display, and it shows the focus distance that you or the camera have chosen. It will also display the depth of field that a given aperture will produce. This is a very nice feature and will be appreciated by street photographers looking to set their camera to its hyperfocal distance for rapid-response street shooting..

I am familiar with the amazing low light capability of the Nikon D3, and I am confident that in terms of high ISO noise performance the X100 is close to it. [b]ISOs up to 3200 is so relatively noise free that I wouldn't hesitate to use any speed, even for critical work. 3200 is very good, and even 6400 only needs a bit of clean up.... it's hard to find any fault with the X100's image quality, especially when combined with its mated lens, which is similarly first rate.[/b]The resolution of this combination seems higher than the pixel count would suggest. I know. I know. 12MP is 12MP. But, that's why I care less about lab tests than I do real world experience. I have made high cropped prints at 160 ppi from the X100 that rival those from other cameras at 300 ppi. How so? I have no idea. But I know what I see.... Its my sense that Fuji's archetypical customer for the X100 is someone who has experience with cameras from the days of film. They appreciate top build quality, manual aperture and shutter controls, and especially a viewing and composing system that makes getting the shot both efficient and enjoyableble.I'll be blunt. I hate cameras that don't have eye level viewfinders. Shooting with the camera held away from me, as if holding a baby with a smelly diaper, is just not my idea of a good time. Stability suffers as compared to having ones elbows tucked in.The innovative optical / electronic viewfinder of the X100 is more than just eye candy. It will satisfy the experienced Leica M series user by offering a realoptical view of the intended composition, but at the flip of a switch all of the advantages of an EVF are available."

steve huff photo
"I am enjoying the hell out of this camera. Shooting with it was pleasure and the OVF is amazing..When you combine super color, hugh dynamic range and fantastic lens qualities, you get amazing results... the way the X100 renders the light is superb....If the performance at ISO 1000 and even 6400 is this good, we know that anything UNDER this will be even better. It’s all good. The X100 ROCKS and it ROCKS HARD. No, it is NOT perfect but neither is the Leica X1, or NEX-5, or E-P2, or Ricoh. What the X100 has is a combination of looks, size, performance and technology all wrapped up into one classic,sexy, well built design. $1200? It’s priced right folks. To be honest, this could be my only camera and I would be happy. It’s light enough to take anywhere, it’s a joy to use, and once you get used to how it operates and exposes, the results are up there with the best of the APS-C cameras."

ken rockwell
"The images I get from my X100 are ...amazing, under every lighting from desert sun to dim restaurants to moonlight. The X100 makes people's skin tones look fantastic, and gives great color for nature and landscape photography. The X100's ability to tame difficult light,....is amazing. Couple always-fantastic images in the world's smallest real camera, and you can see why I love it so much — and why no one has it in stock!

The next 100 pages of review will simply add to these basic truths. [b]The most astounding thing is just how great the images look. The X100 has an uncanny ability to make great-looking images under any light.The Fujifilm X100 is the smallest and lightest real camera ever made[/b].

[b]The electronic leaf shutter is essentially silent, a hundred times quieter than any SLR's quiet mode or a real LEICA[/b]. Looking like a foolish old 35mm camera and making no noise, no one will take you seriously as you snap away in sensitive areas. Tape a film-box end over the LCD to look like a 35mm camera even from the back, and you can still control everything and playback through the finder!

The Fujifilm X100 is the smallest and lightest real camera ever made. With lens, it's even lighter that previous winners of the tiny real-camera club, the LEICA IIIf or Minolta CLE. The tiny Contax G and LEICA M cameras are pigs by comparison.

The X100's images look fantastic. super-sharp, in-focus, have great bokeh, great colors, dead-on exposures in every light, highlights that just won't blow-out, perfect shadows and dynamic range, skin tones are magnificent, fill-flash exposure is beautiful over an astounding range from direct sun to moonlight, auto white balance works everywhere, and low-light performance is unstoppable. High ISO images are cleaner than the LEICA M9.The Fujifilm X100 handles all sorts of mixed and less-than-ideal lighting with ease. Even under awful light, the X100 usually returns great results with just its usual Auto White Balance setting, and no light is too dim for hand-held shooting.The X100 creates fantastic skin tones in any light[/color], and make more accurate photos of tan colors than I've ever gotten from my Canon or Nikon DSLRs. When my condo was repainted, I wasn't able to get a photo that showed it accurately until I tried the X100. It's amazing how the X100 gives bright colors, as well as extremely accurate colors that used to be difficult to reproduce.It is better than any Nikon or Canon DSLR at balancing fill-flash automatically in any light from daylight to moonlight for natural results. Especially indoors at night, the X100 seamlessly integrates action-stopping flash-fill with enough sensitivity to catch the ambient background light, all without requiring any of the fiddling with settings that my SLRs require to get this to look as good. The X100 just does it!

steves digicams
"...the X100's image quality..incredibly sharp with great exposures & amazing color. Even when looking at the images at 100%, there is nothing that stands out as a flaw in the images. Chromatic aberrations, ghosting and image noise are well controlled, leaving us with images of exactly what the photographer's eye sees. Our macro mode sample shows the amazing, high resolution image that the camera is capable of. The detail and textures shown within the image speaks for itself. [/color] Our indoor sample shows with even more detail how clear of an image the X100 is capable of capturing. All the way from ISO 100 (LOW), to ISO 12800 (HIGH) and all of the normal levels in between, each setting provides amazing quality. Up until ISO 1600, you will see relativley no noise within the image; what you will see is an amazing amount of detail that far surpasses most low to mid range dSLR cameras. Looking at the higher settings in our tests, there is not one that shows an amount of image noise that is too much to use for at least an 8x10-inch print. Assisting with your low-light image capture is a small but powerful built-in TTL flash unit. With an effective range of up to 29.5ft. at ISO 1600, this unit can provide enough light for a mid-sized room with no problem. Combining this with the incredibly low noise levels allows you to comfortably use these higher ISO settings for your indoor shooting. there is no Portrait shooting mode just focusing on a face is more than enough. These images came out so clear that you can see the details all the way down to the texture of the skin and individual hairs on their heads. Even when using the flash there is incredible detail and absolutely no redness in the eyes of our subjects."

thehighlighted quote i chose to point out opinions similar to one ihold for the x 100, its that good

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2011, 07:11:08 AM »

Yes, a sell out idea that just keeps selling out "On and On and On...."
RFF has an X100 for sale every so often, it typically sells with-in a few days... $1200 is a current used price for one just a few months old.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #20 on:** October 07, 2011, 12:42:34 PM »

M5 , TO THIS DAY HERE in nyc i sometimes get a ''really"... mirrorless?? smirk from the the occasiona l"l m the one with a real camera" SLR albatross user ...as if they just dont get it, and by it i mean the wonderful benefits micro 43 offers size weight fine image quality , legacy lens adaption fantastic jpegs etc, i just smile and go my way happy with my fantastic ep1 and 12mm f2 m zukio lens

sometimes i feel that many otherwise very smart folks just dont "get" the fujifilm x 100' either

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #21 on:** October 07, 2011, 01:26:19 PM »

I have a cousin looking to buy a C/N.... I suggested a Panasonic G3 (SLR look), or an EP-3 that surpasses the entry level DSLR from every one....
But, she has the same Market Brainwash as many others...
It is just something the "FanBoys" will never get. Like the NEW NIKON add for the V1 said... It is your equipment that makes you a great a photographer... (Gagging in laughter

)
Granted, your IQ will improve with better glass and sensors... BUT, your eye won't improve, and they will still take the same crappy photo's, but with a more expensive camera...
But, it has always been that way for a part of the photo hobbyist.

I hope they introduce a consumer Mirror-less camera with interchangeable lenses..(x100 like in looks and operation). the one mentioned sound like a Pro Camera to my reading... Which is great, but, the X100 really upset the table, and many want a Mirror-less camera with interchangeable lenses now to be a Leica M8/9 alternative (The Epson R-D1s is only 6mp... a 10mp-12mp sensor would rock), and the timing is right, since the X100 is such a success IMO.... But, I don't think Cosina will play along and provide the body at this point.

tamoio · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2011, 01:05:23 AM »

Quote from: rogerml on October 06, 2011, 10:32:11 PM

Personally, I'm a 'facts' kind of person. Facts are that 80 thousands FinePix X100 have been shipped from the factory so far this year. Fact is, that the camera are still scarce when asked for by potential customers. Where I live in Thailand, in a city of close to half a million people, and hundreds of thousands tourists visiting in a year, shops are almost completely in vain of getting this camera from the importers. Consequently, if I would like to see to see this camera around someone's neck, I put the one I own around my neck, and look in the mirror. What I see is, apart from the X100, a big smile. :-)

Yes Roger (and all else), I'm a facts-kinda-guy too. In fact I'm an academic facts-kinda-guy. Someone provide me with a source for Fuji X100 sales numbers worldwide? The only place I've ever seen these sort of statistics tossed around are in thinly veiled marketing/press releases in the blogosphere. 80,000 units shipped from the factory? To where? Have they all been sold? More importantly how many Canon DSLR units shipped in the same time frame? How many Nikon DSLRs? How many of those units sold? How do Fuji X100 sales compare to other models from other manufacturers?

I think that 80,000 units in terms of market-penetration is probably a bit of a joke. Even 2 or 3 hundred thousand units if they sold every stinking one of them is a drop in the pan. Interesting camera? Yeah, sort of, in a spartan, retro sort of way. In pure imaging terms there are unquestionably better tools for the same price. About as nostalgic as I can get about cameras are my M3s and M4s, The X100 is no Leica, and people are just giving it points for trying. The modern Pens are vastly more versatile.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2011, 07:10:31 AM »

the image quality of the x1oo is in a different league than the pens or the pannys, also the x 100 does just about everything better than a leica m 9
that goes for white balance noise supression ,exposure ability and even performance writing to an sd card, which many m9s seems unable to do consistantly without destroying a cards files or even the card, which is just unacceptable in any digital camera, more so in 8000 dollar one

the resolution of of the leica ia a little better , it is afterall 18mp and full frame so this is understandable , but the files out of an apsc sensored x100 are so good, and so sharp, and perfectly exposed and perfectly white balanced, fill flash , which is all it does is in a word perfect.... crispness color and contrast
of the optic are stellar, and using the viewfinder makes me nevr want to buy a viewfinderless camera again, a 35 prime , if you had to have one is the one to have , tom hogan report 300,000 , but honestly if only three were made it wouldnt change the camera that it is, which is superb.

but have no illusions , [and many dont,lol] the x 100 is not perfect , its slow to start up\wake up sometime from sleep... needs a bigger buffer and faster raw write times [so does the m9] its auto iso menu items are stupidly placed. away from the iso selection list , it needed a second function button

...........but what it desprately needs an interchangable lens mount mount and lenses like the 25mm 1.4 pana\leica and the 2 latest m .zukio s the 12mm2and 45mm1.8,i love my pens , but why oh why cant i buy one with evf like the nex 7 or my fuji , why?... why cant i have a better sensor inan olympus?why?cooking the image to remove noise at the expense of detail, and those useless aa filters are hurting many a micro 43 sensored camera
not having an integrated evf, is also behind the curve here .the ep3 is such a great camera in so many ways , i almost bought one several times, but its hopelessly outdated sensor is what given me pause,its time for the flagship of the pens 2 years on to move to a better sensor
x100, love it or hate it,... when it evolves into a lens mount camera it will change the whole game imho

cosinaphile · « **Reply #24 on:** October 08, 2011, 07:22:55 AM »

Quote from: M5-User on October 07, 2011, 01:26:19 PM

I have a cousin looking to buy a C/N.... I suggested a Panasonic G3 (SLR look), or an EP-3 that surpasses the entry level DSLR from every one....
But, she has the same Market Brainwash as many others...
It is just something the "FanBoys" will never get. Like the NEW NIKON add for the V1 said... It is your equipment that makes you a great a photographer... (Gagging in laughter )
Granted, your IQ will improve with better glass and sensors... BUT, your eye won't improve, and they will still take the same crappy photo's, but with a more expensive camera...
But, it has always been that way for a part of the photo hobbyist.

I hope they introduce a consumer Mirror-less camera with interchangeable lenses..(x100 like in looks and operation). the one mentioned sound like a Pro Camera to my reading... Which is great, but, the X100 really upset the table, and many want a Mirror-less camera with interchangeable lenses now to be a Leica M8/9 alternative (The Epson R-D1s is only 6mp... a 10mp-12mp sensor would rock), and the timing is right, since the X100 is such a success IMO.... But, I don't think Cosina will play along and provide the body at this point.

the g 3 is alot of camera for the money, and the sensor is so much better that olympus, thats a very good recccomendation, she should try it out in a store if she can , i did , and its a nice machine ,reallyim...btw my wifes friends husband who i spoke to at several dinner parties works at panny headquarterson the east coast here hes going to get me some scoops aboutthe feature set of the panny pro camera, im waiting to see or know before i retire my ep1 for an ep3 or a panny, as soon as i learn something , ill post it at the forum

Author Topic: Fujian to enter "mirror-less" SLR market (Read 3310 times)

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