Author Topic: 'Sony Could Kill Olympus & Panasonic If...' (Read 3349 times)

Panther · « **on:** June 07, 2011, 03:23:35 PM »

The sensor in the upcoming NEX-C3 is the same sensor that's in the Nikon D7000/Pentax K-5/a580...

lisandra · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:52:19 PM »

not necessarily, dpreview posted the studio comparison scene for the G3 and even at ISO 6400 it blows the D7000, the A55, the GH2 and the K5 out of the water. Its more detailed at ISO 3200 than the 5D mk II (dont shoot me!).

Panther · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:28:27 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on June 07, 2011, 03:52:19 PM

not necessarily, dpreview posted the studio comparison scene for the G3 and even at ISO 6400 it blows the D7000, the A55, the GH2 and the K5 out of the water. Its more detailed at ISO 3200 than the 5D mk II (dont shoot me!).

DXOMark has the Pentax K-5 & Nikon D7000 blowing the doors off the G3 - it isn't even close...
--> http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Camera-Sensor/Compare/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/701%7C0/(appareil2)/676%7C0/(appareil3)/680%7C0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Panasonic/(brand2)/Pentax/(brand3)/Nikon

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #3 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:43:57 PM »

Most, if not all, is because of the larger sensor natural properties...
BUT, the OT, has to do with Image detail retained at high ISO's. DXO scores are DR only.... And any bigger sensor will do better.

Panther · « **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2011, 06:56:21 PM »

Quote from: M5-User on June 07, 2011, 05:43:57 PM

Most, if not all, is because of the larger sensor natural properties...
BUT, the OT, has to do with Image detail retained at high ISO's. DXO scores are DR only.... And any bigger sensor will do better.

Exactly....
There's a reason why full frame cameras perform the way they do.....

lisandra · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2011, 07:01:26 PM »

Quote from: Panther on June 07, 2011, 05:28:27 PM

Quote from: lisandra on June 07, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
not necessarily, dpreview posted the studio comparison scene for the G3 and even at ISO 6400 it blows the D7000, the A55, the GH2 and the K5 out of the water. Its more detailed at ISO 3200 than the 5D mk II (dont shoot me!).

DXOMark has the Pentax K-5 & Nikon D7000 blowing the doors off the G3 - it isn't even close...
--> http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Camera-Sensor/Compare/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/701%7C0/(appareil2)/676%7C0/(appareil3)/680%7C0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Panasonic/(brand2)/Pentax/(brand3)/Nikon

Ive NEVER seen a result form DxO agree with real life. THe GH1 is better at high ISO than the GH2 according to them. I made a thread for the comparison, "lets pixel peep", look at the crops and tell me the G3 doesnt keep up!

Panther · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:21:01 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on June 07, 2011, 07:01:26 PM

Ive NEVER seen a result form DxO agree with real life.

And I didn't expect you to agree either...as far as which is "right" & which is "wrong" will be up for debate for many years to come...

lisandra · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2011, 09:59:37 PM »

Quote from: Panther on June 07, 2011, 08:21:01 PM

Quote from: lisandra on June 07, 2011, 07:01:26 PM
Ive NEVER seen a result form DxO agree with real life.

And I didn't expect you to agree either...as far as which is "right" & which is "wrong" will be up for debate for many years to come...

true that

voyager · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2011, 11:54:46 PM »

The C3 looks like a joke to me.

Well, since I haven't heard the official details about the GF3, I might need to take that back. Or at least not say it is more of a joke than any other camera.

adash · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2011, 12:19:44 AM »

Quote

The sensor in the upcoming NEX-C3 is the same sensor that's in the Nikon D7000/Pentax K-5/a580...

It already is in a55, as far as I know, and I did not see it kill Canon/Nikon sales combined, before D7000 was released. D7000 did not kill Canon, and K-5 did not kill Olympus, etc, etc. So, what are you talking about?

lisandra · « **Reply #10 on:** June 08, 2011, 12:55:28 AM »

43 rumors and reviews say (dp review, focus numerique):
There is now more new stuff coming from the competition! Sony announced the new NEX-C3, a huge 30mm macro lens and a new NEX flash. You can follow all the news on MirrorlessRumors (Click here).
UDPATE: There is a ISO comparison with the new SOny NEX-C3 versus the Panasonic G3 and Olympus E-PL2 at Dpreview, Focus Numerique (Click here).
UPDATE_2: They also tested the camera for a week and noticed that the anti dust cleaning isn’t as good as the one used by Olympus. And also the OIS system is not as effective as the one used by Olympus. And they do prefer the Panasonic G3 performance over the NEX-C3!

Panther · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:04:12 AM »

1. A55 sensor is not the K-5 sensor, a580 sensor is the K-5 sensor

2. Looks to me like C3 does not have a580 sensor

Cheers!

adash · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:13:13 AM »

Quote

1. A55 sensor is not the K-5 sensor

How do you know that? Really, I find no official announcements online. Do you have more information on the issue?

Panther · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:16:14 AM »

Because I read.
There's sort of a Sony sensor review that's out that compares the a580, K-5 , and D7000...all of which share the same Sony sensor....

Panther · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:23:05 AM »

And like magic, "voilà!"
--> http://www.alphamountworld.com/product-reports/162-megapixels-a580-k5-and-d7000

adash · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:24:34 AM »

Quote

There's sort of a Sony sensor review that's out that compares the a580, K-5 , and D7000...all of which share the same Sony sensor....

And you are concluding that a55 has a different sensor only because it is in the comparison?

BTW, I just did some RAW pixel peeping at dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicDMCGH2/page20.asp

GH2, A580 and D7000 look the same at ISO6400, E-5 is one stop behind. Yes, they are good, but what? They are not THAT better compared to latest Panasonic sensors.
No killing is to happen yet. Sorry to the bloodthirsty.

Panther · « **Reply #16 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:28:52 AM »

Quote from: adash on June 08, 2011, 04:24:34 AM

Sorry to the bloodthirsty.

No need to apologize...I am now used to this from you

adash · « **Reply #17 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:36:47 AM »

It ain't personal, you know.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #18 on:** June 08, 2011, 06:17:09 AM »

and it shouldnt be personal for goodness sake

its sensors guys

that said i think for what m 43 offers in size benefit over
giant meteorites like my nikon d 80 it is an acceptable tradeoff

at high isos the apsc sensor is better , but not by alot
and lower isos the mico 43 sensors produce outstanding files that when printed are indistinguishable from most apsc
its on a pixel level that differences are apparent , useful for
getting a better crop at times , or richer dynamic range
which i would like to see improve in all digital csmeras regardless of sensor religion

popo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 08, 2011, 08:55:07 AM »

On the earlier comments on DxO sensor mark, I find they do relate very well to the cameras I own and use. The key point to note is they test RAW performance. The jpegs are meaningless as that is a test of how well you cook it. Certainly jpeg processing has improved a lot since the early days. Also you need to understand what their tests are, and how significant the scores are. Remember that 15 points on their overall rating scale is equivalent to one stop. The differences we're looking at between GH1 and GH2 overall is less than 1/3 of a stop, so practically insignificant.

Panther · « **Reply #20 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:34:40 AM »

Quote

The big news, beyond the NEX-C3's reduced size, is the inclusion of a 16MP sensor. This isn't exactly the same sensor used to such great effect in the Sony A55 (amongst others)......Just as Panasonic has decided to shrink and simplify its G and GF-series cameras, Sony is clearly trying to attract customers who want DSLR quality but wouldn't consider lugging a big black lump of camera around, and who (quite reasonably) are more interested in taking good pictures than learning what f-numbers mean........

IMHO, C3 could have been a lot better with *the* sensor.....
On a side note, 30mm macro stands to possibly be a big disappointment amongst NEX users....

adash · « **Reply #21 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:38:40 AM »

Quote

and who (quite reasonably) are more interested in taking good pictures than learning what f-numbers mean........

This sentence alone speaks for itself....really.
Why would you want to know what a sensor is if you don't want to know what F-stop is?
Why does it matter if you always point and shoot?
Why bother kill anyone else if he isn't preventing your point-and-shoot game in the first place?

popo · « **Reply #22 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:44:37 AM »

Quote from: Panther on June 08, 2011, 09:34:40 AM

On a side note, 30mm macro stands to possibly be a big disappointment amongst NEX users....

Did I miss something? What's up with the macro? It seems very affordable, and I'd be interested in a wider angle macro lens than I currently have for the different background perspective.

Panther · « **Reply #23 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:52:41 AM »

Quote from: popo on June 08, 2011, 09:44:37 AM

Did I miss something? What's up with the macro? It seems very affordable, and I'd be interested in a wider angle macro lens than I currently have for the different background perspective.

--> http://dpreview.com/previews/sonynexc3/page3.asp#Macro

From dpreview.com:

Quote

It's not all great news, though. The relatively short focal length means that the working distance from the front of the lens to the subject at 1:1 is less than an inch, and while Sony's press release makes this out to be a good thing and ideal for shooting flowers and insects, the truth is that you'll have trouble lighting those flowers with the lens so close. Not to mention the fact that any insects will get scared off and either run or fly away, depending on flavor. That's just the price you have to pay for the lens not costing very much.

popo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:58:32 AM »

Ok, that's badly written on their part. Sony's 30mm macro is no worse than anyone else's 30mm macro on same size sensor, or a 50mm macro on full frame. It definitely wont be a bug hunter's 1st choice, but you're just not going to find a compact and cheap 150mm+ macro lens! I see the 30mm macro as better suited as a still life macro lens. I'm sure longer macro lenses will follow, but they wont be small. This is the disadvantage of having a relatively large sensor...

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