Author Topic: 'Decision Point: No More Sony For Me' (Read 1219 times)

RT_Panther · « **on:** November 08, 2011, 10:49:37 AM »

I'll keep this short and simple.
Within 45 days of official announcement, I've acquired a Nikon 1 J1 and more dedicated lenses than I ever had with Sony I possessed for more than year.

This is why µ4/3 stays ahead of Sony - availability of lenses.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2011, 12:11:38 PM »

I THINK THE J 1 IS A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE CAMERA WITH awesome iq for its sensor size , but im totally annoyed by its controls, i hope to change my opinion
one i get reports about the ease of changing f stop and ss in m mode , and positive reports about legacy glass use etc , id like to have a body to play with

enjoy

my 200 2.8 FD lens adapted on a 2.7 or 2.8 crop? sensor could seriously so some long range damage in the tele dept!

asterinex · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2011, 12:21:05 PM »

Quote from: RT_Panther on November 08, 2011, 10:49:37 AM

I'll keep this short and simple.
Within 45 days of official announcement, I've acquired a Nikon 1 J1 and more dedicated lenses than I ever had with Sony I possessed for more than year.

This is why µ4/3 stays ahead of Sony - availability of lenses.

No more NEX for you ?
And do you think Nikon V1 is better than M4/3 ?

lisandra · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2011, 01:09:42 PM »

Quote from: asterinex on November 08, 2011, 12:21:05 PM

Quote from: RT_Panther on November 08, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
I'll keep this short and simple.
Within 45 days of official announcement, I've acquired a Nikon 1 J1 and more dedicated lenses than I ever had with Sony I possessed for more than year.

This is why µ4/3 stays ahead of Sony - availability of lenses.
No more NEX for you ?
And do you think Nikon V1 is better than M4/3 ?

I dont think he means it that way....If i do get his point correctly, he's saying that its inexcusable for a camera that has been out for a little over a year has fewer lenses to choose from than a camera that was announced days (literally) ago. Heck, theres no excuse for the time it has taken for m4/3s to churn out glass. The nex 5n is clean and the nex 7 is a rangefinder dream, but unless you only intend to use legacy on them your not gonna have a lot of fun. I also dont think he means to say the j1 is better than m4/3s

asterinex · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2011, 01:20:12 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on November 08, 2011, 01:09:42 PM

Quote from: asterinex on November 08, 2011, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: RT_Panther on November 08, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
I'll keep this short and simple.
Within 45 days of official announcement, I've acquired a Nikon 1 J1 and more dedicated lenses than I ever had with Sony I possessed for more than year.

This is why µ4/3 stays ahead of Sony - availability of lenses.
No more NEX for you ?
And do you think Nikon V1 is better than M4/3 ?
I dont think he means it that way....If i do get his point correctly, he's saying that its inexcusable for a camera that has been out for a little over a year has fewer lenses to choose from than a camera that was announced days (literally) ago. Heck, theres no excuse for the time it has taken for m4/3s to churn out glass. The nex 5n is clean and the nex 7 is a rangefinder dream, but unless you only intend to use legacy on them your not gonna have a lot of fun. I also dont think he means to say the j1 is better than m4/3s

The Nex is compatible with all sony alpha lenses, not?

lisandra · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2011, 01:43:56 PM »

via the semi transparent mirror adapter and at the expense of 1/3 stop loss of light. Bulkity bulk bulk. Its cool because you can retain phase detection AF but its an impractical affair.

asterinex · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2011, 02:09:20 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on November 08, 2011, 01:43:56 PM

via the semi transparent mirror adapter and at the expense of 1/3 stop loss of light. Bulkity bulk bulk. Its cool because you can retain phase detection AF but its an impractical affair.

oh my God !

RT_Panther · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2011, 03:24:13 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on November 08, 2011, 01:09:42 PM

I dont think he means it that way....If i do get his point correctly, he's saying that its inexcusable for a camera that has been out for a little over a year has fewer lenses to choose from than a camera that was announced days (literally) ago.

You are spot-on here!

RT_Panther · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2011, 03:25:25 PM »

Quote from: asterinex on November 08, 2011, 01:20:12 PM

The Nex is compatible with all sony alpha lenses, not?

With an adapter - yes.
But I don't want to use an adapter anymore.

voyager · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2011, 06:13:24 PM »

See, Sony always finds a way to disappoint.

lisandra · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2011, 12:06:47 AM »

At the moment, I'm at the absolute edge with Sony.

asterinex · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2011, 12:27:30 AM »

Quote from: RT_Panther on November 08, 2011, 03:24:13 PM

Quote from: lisandra on November 08, 2011, 01:09:42 PM
I dont think he means it that way....If i do get his point correctly, he's saying that its inexcusable for a camera that has been out for a little over a year has fewer lenses to choose from than a camera that was announced days (literally) ago.

You are spot-on here!

Big sensor + crappy lens = bad IQ
Small sensor + good lens = good IQ

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2011, 06:22:11 AM »

Well, the truth comes out!
Sony has no clue on advancing optical systems, they are used to a single lens for everything thinking, because of the tons of P/S and video cameras they have built their photography around.

But, for a system camera, they have relied on Zeiss for their better lenses, and have produced average lenses themselves. But, not enough varity. They are still thinking that most of their customers are NON photography buffs. Yes, they have a few FF cameras, but, you must get the Zeiss lenses at a premium to get the IQ the camera's can deliver. Might as well get a FF C/N that has a much larger glass selection, in 2nd & 3rd tier lens lines. For that kind of investment. Just my option anyway.

Sent from my iPad

lisandra · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2011, 09:11:37 AM »

Quote from: M5-User on November 09, 2011, 06:22:11 AM

Well, the truth comes out!
Sony has no clue on advancing optical systems, they are used to a single lens for everything thinking, because of the tons of P/S and video cameras they have built their photography around.

But, for a system camera, they have relied on Zeiss for their better lenses, and have produced average lenses themselves. But, not enough varity. They are still. thinking that most of their customers are NON photography buffs. Yes, they have a few FF c ameras, but, you must get the Zeiss lenses at a premium to get the IQ the camera's can deliver. Might as well get a FF C/N that has a much larger glass selection, in 2nd & 3rd tier lens lines. For that kind of investment. Just my option anyway.

Sent from my iPad

they do have G series glass, which are fine pieces of equipment, but they're as expensive as zeiss glass and rare too. The nex 7 should have been announced along with a couple of high grade lenses

voyager · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2011, 12:29:04 AM »

Quote from: M5-User on November 09, 2011, 06:22:11 AM

Well, the truth comes out!
Sony has no clue on advancing optical systems, they are used to a single lens for everything thinking, because of the tons of P/S and video cameras they have built their photography around.

But, for a system camera, they have relied on Zeiss for their better lenses, and have produced average lenses themselves. But, not enough varity. They are still thinking that most of their customers are NON photography buffs. Yes, they have a few FF cameras, but, you must get the Zeiss lenses at a premium to get the IQ the camera's can deliver. Might as well get a FF C/N that has a much larger glass selection, in 2nd & 3rd tier lens lines. For that kind of investment. Just my option anyway.

Sent from my iPad

Imagine what they'd do if they didn't have Zeiss and Minolta.

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #15 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:21:32 AM »

Quote from: voyager on November 10, 2011, 12:29:04 AM

Quote from: M5-User on November 09, 2011, 06:22:11 AM
Well, the truth comes out!
Sony has no clue on advancing optical systems, they are used to a single lens for everything thinking, because of the tons of P/S and video cameras they have built their photography around.

But, for a system camera, they have relied on Zeiss for their better lenses, and have produced average lenses themselves. But, not enough varity. They are still thinking that most of their customers are NON photography buffs. Yes, they have a few FF cameras, but, you must get the Zeiss lenses at a premium to get the IQ the camera's can deliver. Might as well get a FF C/N that has a much larger glass selection, in 2nd & 3rd tier lens lines. For that kind of investment. Just my option anyway.

Sent from my iPad

Imagine what they'd do if they didn't have Zeiss and Minolta.

Nothing....

They are a Lucky company to have that stuff.. But, they are not a lens maker... Never was. I don't count the lenses for the P/S as a serious lens maker.
Sent from my iPad

adash · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:58:56 AM »

Quote

But, they are not a lens maker... Never was.

The math, precision and technology, required to make a single 18-55 F/3.5 - F/5.6 with decent quality, are enormous, so anyone who makes even that, is actually a lens maker.

Quote

I don't count the lenses for the P/S as a serious lens maker.

It is even more serious, as precision requirements are higher, and those lenses use many aspherical elements to make up for their small size and limited number of glass surfaces. For example, a Tessar 50/2.8 has four elements in three groups, but is limited to a single focal length. A lens in a compact camera, will have the same number of elements, but will allow at least 3x zoom, with a slightly lower lens speed, but acceptable quality across the zoom range.

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2011, 10:10:31 AM »

Quote from: adash on November 10, 2011, 04:58:56 AM

Quote
But, they are not a lens maker... Never was.
The math, precision and technology, required to make a single 18-55 F/3.5 - F/5.6 with decent quality, are enormous, so anyone who makes even that, is actually a lens maker.
Quote
I don't count the lenses for the P/S as a serious lens maker.
It is even more serious, as precision requirements are higher, and those lenses use many aspherical elements to make up for their small size and limited number of glass surfaces. For example, a Tessar 50/2.8 has four elements in three groups, but is limited to a single focal length. A lens in a compact camera, will have the same number of elements, but will allow at least 3x zoom, with a slightly lower lens speed, but acceptable quality across the zoom range.

So why don't they offer a wider selection of cheaper glass... cheaper than the G series?
Are they counting on people buying OLD Minolta AF lenses and 3rd party M-AF lenses?

RT_Panther · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:17:43 PM »

Actually,
Sony does offer budget "DT" A-mount glass....35/50/85mm primes all for under $300 USD...

voyager · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2011, 10:16:44 PM »

Very true, and many other brands should do the same.

adash · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2011, 06:11:24 AM »

Quote

So why don't they offer a wider selection of cheaper glass... cheaper than the G series?

They seem to offer a wide selection of glass, some Sony brand, some Zeiss, and some seem to be inherited from old Minolta designs (remember they purchased the whole camera division from them?). Price is not something I am really keen on commenting, they seem to have some cheap models, but I guess quality isn't too cheap in the first place. AFIK, they have the only AF Mirror lens in the world, that is something to be recognized, as is one of the few true Defocus Control (Smooth Trans Focus according to the official description) - the Sony Alpha 135/2.8 [T4.5] STF.

RT_Panther · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2011, 07:54:12 PM »

Thinking on this again....since this summer, Sony has presented 3 new bodies (C3/5N/7) but we're still waiting on the prime lenses...(okay so the macro is available).

Olympus, Panasonic, & Nikon (and I'll throw in Pentax since their "Q" systems lenses seem to be readily available) totally understand that the bread & butter of any system is lenses.

lisandra · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:55:39 PM »

all of those cheap lenses come with cheap IQ. I dont think theres a sony lens I havent tried out.

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