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Author Topic: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?  (Read 3125 times)

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Offline count_zero

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Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« on: August 11, 2011, 12:28:13 PM »
This is the latest from Get Olympus Facebook QA.

Quote
Will Olympus ever have a manual focus "peaking" feature?

Quote
hadn't heard that term before, am guessing you've seen this function on other cameras. We use a similar effect for the histogram to illustrate out of gamut values. I'll pass along your suggestion, like it.

Huh, never though of using the histogram to determine if your in/out of focus.  I guess what Oly is saying this is effectively what Sony is displaying in relation to the Live View.  Sounds awesome, will have to test it out tonight when I get home from work.  I could be misinterpreting Oly's response...
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 12:35:11 PM by count_zero »

Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 12:37:49 PM »
What the response meant, I think, is the the same technology used to illuminate the histogram is the same as used for "Peak" focusing... NOT using the Histogram to focus...
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Offline voyager

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 03:36:52 PM »
The histogram is a mysterious thing. I still don't know how to read one.
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Offline lisandra

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 05:29:49 PM »
The histogram is a mysterious thing. I still don't know how to read one.
The histogram is a marvelous thing, without one Id shoot myself!! :o
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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 05:55:30 PM »
i too can not fathom it

Offline Em5 Pete

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 06:06:40 PM »
Here is a simple guide to exposure using the Histogram
Shoot to the right... but NOT all the way to the right... leave a little space

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Offline adash

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 08:19:49 PM »
You can not determine the precise focusing from the histogram!
The answer you got is nonsense, you should probably describe the feature (i.e. highlighting the sharply focused areas, not depending on exposure) and demand another answer.

I do hope that they implement it soon, or I will not buy their cameras!
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Offline lisandra

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2011, 09:05:35 PM »
Here is a simple guide to exposure using the Histogram
Shoot to the right... but NOT all the way to the right... leave a little space



Danger is my middle name, I take it all the way to the right! Well, t depends...If the peak is too high itll clip if you push it, but if the peak is at or maybe a bit lower than the sample posted here, Ill push it corner to corner or as far to the right as I can. Sometimes the camera warns me about overexposure, but then I get home and all the highlight info is there and can easily be brought down. Bringing down highlights has no fouls (no noise or artifacts) but brightening up to compensate will in most cases make noise or artifacts appear. This method gives me dynamic range way over what these cameras are capable of.
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Offline Agent00soul

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2011, 09:27:11 PM »
Here is a simple guide to exposure using the Histogram
Shoot to the right... but NOT all the way to the right... leave a little space



Danger is my middle name, I take it all the way to the right! Well, t depends...If the peak is too high itll clip if you push it, but if the peak is at or maybe a bit lower than the sample posted here, Ill push it corner to corner or as far to the right as I can. Sometimes the camera warns me about overexposure, but then I get home and all the highlight info is there and can easily be brought down. Bringing down highlights has no fouls (no noise or artifacts) but brightening up to compensate will in most cases make noise or artifacts appear. This method gives me dynamic range way over what these cameras are capable of.


The danger with this method is if you have small white birds in the scene. They are too small to register in the histogram and will be totally blown out. Been there, done that. So while it's a good strategy, you should use it with caution.

Offline warhorst

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2011, 10:05:27 PM »
isn;t it easier to do it the old way?

Prefocus and read the exposure on the high and low exp, and shoot it in between...

the histogram helps...but....its just a preference.

Offline count_zero

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2011, 10:15:22 PM »
Quote
The answer you got is nonsense, you should probably describe the feature (i.e. highlighting the sharply focused areas, not depending on exposure) and demand another answer.

I wasn't around during the QA to get clarification on the question.  The question was from another, I just read it afterwards in the thread. 

I think the Oly guy did know what feature the guy was talking about.   Typically, in the tech business engineers play dumb like they never heard of a competitor's feature.  This way the customer can't complain that they chose not to have parity with their competitors, and the customer feels happy like they are contributing to future design by pointing out a competitor has a feature they like. 

Oly probably didn't think of this "peaking" solution while the E-P3 was being developed, and they didn't want to throw it in at the last second without proper testing.  Plus, it might violate a patent Sony filed if they did add it. 

Someone else asked (again) about a rangefinder/hybrid view finder, and they got the typical "I like that idea" response.  Your best bet during the QA sessions is to point out what technical limitation the camera has, and ask what can Oly do to address those issues.  If you ask for a feature directly you will get the "i like that idea" response. 

My question for next week if I can make it in time would be "I'm losing a lot of peak action moments when shooting sports due to Live View lag because the subject is moving too fast and I can't see them to keep them in the frame.  How can I overcome live view buffer lag when shooting sequential mode?".  The answer is you can't, unless you're really good at praying.  But, they might reveal some ideas they are working on for a future EVF (hybrid?) or next gen "pro" model.

Offline count_zero

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 10:33:34 PM »
The histogram output depends on your metering setting.  The meter is exposing for 18% middle grey.  So if you're using spot metering and focusing on something white, it will turn out grey.  Same is true if you're focusing on something black.  If your white bird is disappearing, or the sky went from blue to white, the meter probably over exposed for black to make the black area grey.  This weekend I should spend a lot of time playing with matrix metering to see how fancy it is on the E-P3 vs. the E-P1.

The E-P3 has a tone curve setting, where you can meter correctly, then underexpose the shadows or high lighten the whites to add more dynamic range.  Sort of like how you would do when shooting raw and under exposing everything, then in photoshop use the tone curve to bring back the details.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 10:35:54 PM by count_zero »

Offline lisandra

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 10:59:53 PM »
I place the spot meter on my subject and adjust for it. It's what's important.
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Offline voyager

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2011, 11:29:53 PM »
Man, you guys get so much more into taking photos than I do. I never even look at my histogram, I just put it on Aperture Priority mode.
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Offline lisandra

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 01:07:16 AM »
Man, you guys get so much more into taking photos than I do. I never even look at my histogram, I just put it on Aperture Priority mode.
try it out! What's the worse that could happen?
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Offline adash

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 01:32:38 AM »
Man, you guys get so much more into taking photos than I do. I never even look at my histogram, I just put it on Aperture Priority mode.
I don't judge a photo based in its histogram either. I usually trust my eyes, trying to adjust shadow and highlight detail, curves, brightness, etc. based on my personal preference.
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Offline popo

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2011, 07:59:01 AM »
I think the Oly response was quite clear. Let me rephrase it:
"We haven't heard of focus peaking before, but it sounds kinda like something else we do for something else." They are not saying anywhere the something else will be related or used for the focus.

As for histograms and exposure, once again I find myself the opposite of lisandra :P If in doubt, underexpose. It is infinitely easier to recover shadows than find forever lost highlights. Also remember unless you're looking at the RGB histogram, you can clip a colour even if the luminance histo looks ok. This can often happen shooting strongly coloured objects like flowers.
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Offline adash

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2011, 09:15:03 AM »
Salesmen do get instructions how to compare products with competition. They usually know everything about features, price, etc. so they can always respond in a non-nonsense way. Oly sales people not knowing about this MF peaking probably means it is too new and did not make it to the sales presentations.
Anyway, asking the same question again and again may make it to the product development department and a comparable thing may be implemented in the future.
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Offline asterinex

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 12:07:48 PM »
Man, you guys get so much more into taking photos than I do. I never even look at my histogram, I just put it on Aperture Priority mode.
Me too  :-X
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Offline traveler_101

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 01:41:42 AM »
Man, you guys get so much more into taking photos than I do. I never even look at my histogram, I just put it on Aperture Priority mode.
Me too  :-X

I am the same way. I shoot manual: I just decide the settings, meter, use my intuition and take the shot, but then I review the shot afterwards. I have set review to blink at me: blue (underexposed) and red (overexposed). I can then take a second shot if I am not satisfied. I don't know and I am open to learning. Can someone explain why I should use the histogram instead?
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Offline RSilva

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 03:10:59 AM »
I use aperture mode and increase the exposure 0.3 then use the histogram to control the highlights. I do this to increase the noise to signal ratio (only useful if you take your pictures raw). There's a good article about that here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml

Offline Rck

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2011, 05:32:23 PM »
Man, you guys get so much more into taking photos than I do. I never even look at my histogram, I just put it on Aperture Priority mode.
This is what I do.
Coming from and still using film don't have the luxury of histogram.
Shoot what I feel and work with that.
Just my 2 cents.

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Offline lisandra

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Re: Pen "peaking" feature similar to NEX 3?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2011, 05:01:06 PM »
Quote
"We haven't heard of focus peaking before, but it sounds kinda like something else we do for something else."
They havent heard??? peak focusing is not new, its been a video feature for years!
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

 

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