Author Topic: EP3 Colour problems, Red is terrebly boosted (Read 3055 times)

georg · « **on:** December 13, 2011, 09:58:12 AM »

Hello,

I got an Olympus EP3 with the standard 14-42mm lens.
The camera is generally nice, but the colours are not what I would have expected.
It seems that the read channel is somehow too strong.

My question is:
A)
can I change some settings to have a different colour processing that will generate more natural colours ??

B)
the bad red colour could be due to a badly designed interferometric filter.
Is there a suggestion for an add on filter that might fix the colour problem with the EP3?
I could imagine that some type of e.g. Schott glass with a gradual attenuation around 600nm might fix the problem.

Well, I would be delighted to get any useful suggestions on this.

Best regards

Georg P. Israel

pretzston · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2011, 10:00:08 AM »

I am in the same boat. It is annoying. Great camera, but the reds are def blown out.

voyager · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2011, 05:17:05 PM »

Sounds like something with the sensor itself, I'm not sure if there's anything that can be changed. I know my E-P1 has trouble with red sometimes too, especially in flowers. Do you guys shoot in RAW or JPEG?

georg · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2011, 08:06:26 AM »

Well, I take my pictures usually in JPEG.
That means the colour processing has already been done.
I can try to use RAW, but I remember that raw had also the same issues.
I suspect that RAW is not really raw, but some bayer after colour processing.

Any how, the red colour issue can not be due to the sensor.
The sensor has not much to do with it.
The QE of the photo diode is given by physics and the CMOS processing steps.
Well, it is a function of the implant and the oxide layers on top.
Then the colour mask will also be standard. I don't think that Olympus will come with some special process.

All in all, the culprit can only be on two points.

A)
some scrued up digital colour processing.
This is my best guess.

B)
some badly designed IR cut of filter.
Well, that is also possible, but it really would be a shame for Olympus.

=> (A) can be solved by somebody that has some insight into the firmware

=> (B) can be solved with some special filters

Now guys,
I was hoping to find here somebody that has some insight into the electronics and optics of this PEN thing,
or do we have here only some metrosexual guys that play with Ken and Barbie toys ??
Well, I am just asking....

Hope to find somebody with some insight

Yours

Georg P. Israel

georg · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2011, 08:41:33 AM »

Hi,

just to give an update.
The Olympus PEN does save the "RAW" images _after_ colour processing.
This means, we can not avoid the red boos issue with the raw file format.

Best regards

Georg P. Israel

lisandra · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2011, 08:52:48 AM »

Quote from: georg on December 14, 2011, 08:41:33 AM

Hi,

just to give an update.
The Olympus PEN does save the "RAW" images _after_ colour processing.
This means, we can not avoid the red boos issue with the raw file format.

Best regards

Georg P. Israel

the point of shooting raw is not that the colors will be fixed automatically, a/d conversion has to be done in camera. Shooting raw gives you much more room to correct it yourself since a 14 bit file will give you more than four times the colors an 8 bit file will. Shooting raw also ensures that the detail behind that red Jang lost due to in camera noise reduction. And the problem is not pen specific, every single bayer sensor has problems with the red channel since the dawn of the digital camera.

georg · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2011, 10:07:18 AM »

Hi,

nice to read that you have a camera that generates 14bit raw bayer files.
I would love to have that,
but my Olympus PEN EP3 does not.
This camera provides _only_ 8 bit raw files that have already passed the colour correction process.

Best regards

Georg P. Israel

lisandra · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2011, 12:21:02 PM »

Quote from: georg on December 14, 2011, 10:07:18 AM

Hi,

nice to read that you have a camera that generates 14bit raw bayer files.
I would love to have that,
but my Olympus PEN EP3 does not.
This camera provides _only_ 8 bit raw files that have already passed the colour correction process.

Best regards

Georg P. Israel

the raw files on the pen (any pen) are 12 bit, which is still more than twice the color info, and if you convert the raw file to a tiff it separates colors into 16 bits. After you finish adjusting the red either on the 12 bit file or the 16 bit tiff, you can convert it to a 8 bit jpeg with the correct colors

lisandra · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:28:36 PM »

correction, tiffs are 16 bits and not 14 like I said, but the pen does churn out 12 bit RAW files that can be saved as 16 bit tiffs

georg · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2011, 02:02:14 AM »

Hi Sandra,

thanks for the information.
Yes, it seems that the raw files from Olympus have more then 8 bit.
I did not find the definition, but it seems there is more information in it.
My initial assumption about the Olympus raw files was not correct.

Thanks for the information.

Best regards

Georg P. Israel

lisandra · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2011, 08:25:37 AM »

As a simple fix, turn the red channel saturation down on your raw converter just until you start seeing the detail hidden behind the over saturation and then stop. The problem now is gonna be that the reds look more pink than red, so you gotta go to the red hue slider and make it red again. Also, if your raw converter has separate sliders for color and luma noise reduction, remember that color noise reduction affects the reds more than the others. A bit of practice and it'll become a less than a minute fix. On this phot, the reds were so intense it looked like a cartoon! But after the fix all the glorious detail down to the dust is visible. Click on it

Details

pretzston · « **Reply #11 on:** December 16, 2011, 05:28:18 AM »

We shouldn't have to be doing post processing on reds in new cameras...

lisandra · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2011, 10:26:04 AM »

Quote from: pretzston on December 16, 2011, 05:28:18 AM

We shouldn't have to be doing post processing on reds in new cameras...

sadly every camera from compacts to full frames have this problem...some cameras attempt to correct this somewhat but the result looks washed out

voyager · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:54:19 AM »

Unless you want to be a Canon fanboy you'll have to deal with this.

pretzston · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:46:43 PM »

I hear ya but my EPL1 doesn't have anywhere near the red blowout problem that the EP3 does. Explain that!

voyager · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2011, 09:22:49 PM »

Tweaks to the sensor.

Agent00soul · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2011, 12:40:08 AM »

Have you tried changing the colour in the camera setup to "muted"?

Rick Clark · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2012, 05:51:32 PM »

I don't have an EP yet but I just took a lot of pic's with my Pentax K5 in all the modes from Bright to Muted and I could not get the red to change at all, in any settings. Must be in the EP3 I guess I wait till the next model comes out before I buy into a EP ? system.

lisandra · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2012, 07:15:58 PM »

Quote from: voyager on December 19, 2011, 04:54:19 AM

Unless you want to be a Canon fanboy you'll have to deal with this.

yes but then you have to deal with those infamous canon skin tones, no thanks

javarob75 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2012, 07:22:50 PM »

My e-p1 has a tough time with reds and oranges... heck, my Canon 40d and 10d had the same problem. I've learned to live with it. It would be nice if it didn't happen, but it's certainly not going to stop me from continuing to invest in Olympus cameras and lenses... does that make me an Olympus fanboy?

rogerml · « **Reply #20 on:** January 19, 2012, 11:38:16 PM »

Don't know about that, - but possibly, - especially if you continue to use the term 'invest' - :-) But, then again, if you continue to shoot pics as good as you do, - 'fanboy or not' doesn't really matter.

javarob75 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2012, 02:33:28 AM »

Quote from: rogerml on January 19, 2012, 11:38:16 PM

Don't know about that, - but possibly, - especially if you continue to use the term 'invest' - :-) But, then again, if you continue to shoot pics as good as you do, - 'fanboy or not' doesn't really matter.

Thanks for the compliment!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

voyager · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2012, 04:32:15 PM »

Try orange bridges. Only Nikon knows how to handle that shit.

lisandra · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2012, 04:34:36 PM »

This has to change, with a solution other than the foveon sensor

mynameisjonas · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:27:41 AM »

One fix for this problem would be to make a custom DNG profile for your camera, that you set to be applied by default when you load images into your RAW converter. You can do it the expensive way by getting the X-rite color checker, or you can just open one of your images (converted to DNG) in Adobe DNG profile editor, tone down the reds to where it looks good, and save that as a profile.

Author Topic: EP3 Colour problems, Red is terrebly boosted (Read 3055 times)

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