Author Topic: E-P1 Noise at ISO200 (Read 3464 times)

nuco · « **on:** March 14, 2011, 04:19:14 PM »

This picture is takent with the Kit lens at ISO200. And is very noisy to me specially in the dark areas.
Is this normal? I'v been having this problem a lot. Even at Base ISO.

Luckypenguin · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2011, 07:01:48 PM »

This is the one major area where I feel that my E-P1 struggles badly against my Canon DSLR gear - shadow noise regardless of ISO.

lisandra · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2011, 07:59:37 PM »

It shouldnt look like that at ISO 200

adash · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2011, 09:41:19 PM »

I can't see any noise at that size. Maybe you should post a 100% crop.

voyager · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2011, 09:54:23 PM »

I don't see any noise either. Also, what are your noise reduction settings? Is this a processed RAW file or a JPEG file? What quality is it?

nuco · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2011, 02:09:05 PM »

It's not a 100% crop but it will do. The noise is very visible in this part.

The picture is taken in JPEG. Middle Normal.
Picture Mode Naural.
Noise Reduct: AUTO
Noise Filter: STD.
Color Space: sRGB
Shading Comp: OFF

adash · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2011, 02:42:42 PM »

What is your Gradation setting? Auto can bring more noise in the shadows than normal.

voyager · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2011, 07:21:46 PM »

It looks like the camera tried to underexpose it and then bring the exposure back up. This happens sort of frequently with the E-P1 in areas with a lot of shadows and not direct light. But it's not TOO bad, but it's also not a software issue as far as I'm aware of, but shooting in RAW or with a stronger noise filter will probably fix your problem.

lisandra · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2011, 07:58:12 PM »

wasnt a setting that caused this?

voyager · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2011, 08:03:40 PM »

On mine? It was underexposing due to me accidentally switching the exposure compensation. But that was in aperture priority mode.

madmaxmedia · « **Reply #10 on:** March 15, 2011, 10:02:15 PM »

I think it could be the gradation setting thing (which I don't use.)

But yeah, Micro 4/3 is a little noisier than expected (but doesn't bother me.)

jr · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2011, 04:12:29 PM »

You definitely need the graduation on 'normal' – which is off. Graduation makes a real mess.

Also, on the E-p1 there are two separate noise settings and the manual is very vague about these. 'Noise reduct' and 'Noise filter'. These are two unrelated things. I have 'Noise Reduct' off. If I have it on it produces a lot of noise - especially at higher ISO. I really don't know what this is for - long exposures I think - but it just makes a mess for me - almost like there's a fault with the camera. 'Noise filter' does what it suggests and I have this on high as it is really effective at reducing noise without any great loss of detail (i shoot raw in any case).

On another point. There will always be noise in the shadows at any ISO and for your picture with small dynamic range you would have been better to over expose by a stop or two then pull it back in post processing. Just look for any postings on 'expose to the right (ETTR)'. It's because of the non-linear nature of perceived light verses the linear nature of the sensor which gives very poor performance in dark areas irrespective of ISO. The e-p1 has an ISO100 setting that effectively does this by one stop for you as it takes an overexposed ISO200 image then brings it down a stop in the camera processing. You need to be careful with this as you lose a stop of dynamic range off the top but if you are aware of this it's gives much less noise without you needing to fiddle about yourself in post processing. I think the e-p2 dropped this though - bummer for e-p2 owners

If you over expose by even one shot and bring it down afterwards then the noise will be gone.

nuco · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:40:42 PM »

Ok, thanks for all of your replies.
I'll try to set the gradation to Normal and Noise reduct to OFF see what happens.

jr · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2011, 04:54:39 AM »

And if there are no bright highlights, such as in the picture you posted, use ISO100.

Brianetta · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:30:37 AM »

Quote from: jr on March 16, 2011, 04:12:29 PM

I have 'Noise Reduct' off. If I have it on it produces a lot of noise - especially at higher ISO. I really don't know what this is for - long exposures I think - but it just makes a mess for me - almost like there's a fault with the camera.

It sounds like a fault to me. The only drawback I've noticed is the extra time it takes for the camera to "expose" a dark frame and subtract it. Since this kind of noise reduction cannot be replicated later unless you are in the habit of taking extreme close-ups of the inside of your lens cap, it's a shame that it's not giving you the results you deserve.

Occasionally, I turn mine off just to see if there are any more hot pixels that I need to map out. There rarely are. (:

jr · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2011, 08:11:30 AM »

Do you have NR 'on' or 'auto' brianetta? The manual seems to imply that auto will only affect long exposures. I haven't fiddled about with this yet. But set to 'on' it creates noise in normal exposures, esp at ISO1600. Does this work in conjunction with the 'Pixel mapping' function? Maybe I should re-run this. It says a rather odd thing in the manual: "After using the monitor wait for one minute before using pixel mapping". You need to use the monitor to start the pixel mapping! Am I being thick here? Also, how do you "see if there are any more hot pixels that I need to map out"? I'm really not getting this part of the camera! $:-\$

traveler_101 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2011, 08:33:18 AM »

Quote from: Brianetta on March 17, 2011, 07:30:37 AM

Quote from: jr on March 16, 2011, 04:12:29 PM
I have 'Noise Reduct' off. If I have it on it produces a lot of noise - especially at higher ISO. I really don't know what this is for - long exposures I think - but it just makes a mess for me - almost like there's a fault with the camera.

It sounds like a fault to me. The only drawback I've noticed is the extra time it takes for the camera to "expose" a dark frame and subtract it. Since this kind of noise reduction cannot be replicated later unless you are in the habit of taking extreme close-ups of the inside of your lens cap, it's a shame that it's not giving you the results you deserve.

Occasionally, I turn mine off just to see if there are any more hot pixels that I need to map out. There rarely are. (:

Brian, what are your settings then for gradation, noise reduction, and noise filter?

jr · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2011, 11:24:54 AM »

Or even better nuco, shoot raw at iso 200 and over expose by 2 stops. In olympus viewer/master bring the exposure back down 2 stops and save to HQ jpeg. You will have no shadow noise and will still have a dynamic range of over 8 stops.

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2011, 11:53:25 AM »

I am learning a lot about the E-P1... I own a Panasonic G1, so I can't help out.....
But, it sound like any other digital camera. You have set the camera up for what you like...
And each make has it's defaults, sometimes, those defaults are not "Our Defaults"
I keep my noise filter on -2 all the time, and keep the contrast/saturation at "0". I also shoot RAW only, no JPG copy.

Brianetta · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:35:08 AM »

Quote from: jr on March 17, 2011, 08:11:30 AM

Do you have NR 'on' or 'auto' brianetta? The manual seems to imply that auto will only affect long exposures. I haven't fiddled about with this yet. But set to 'on' it creates noise in normal exposures, esp at ISO1600. Does this work in conjunction with the 'Pixel mapping' function? Maybe I should re-run this. It says a rather odd thing in the manual: "After using the monitor wait for one minute before using pixel mapping". You need to use the monitor to start the pixel mapping! Am I being thick here? Also, how do you "see if there are any more hot pixels that I need to map out"? I'm really not getting this part of the camera! $:-\$

I have it on auto. Exposures don't have to be very long for it to kick in; well under a second, certainly.

It doesn't work in conjuntion with pixel mapping, but it certainly hides the need for pixel mapping, because hot pixels in the dark frame are subtracted from the image frame, whilst short exposures don't show hot pixels as often.

Brianetta · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:38:55 AM »

Quote from: traveler_101 on March 17, 2011, 08:33:18 AM

Brian, what are your settings then for gradation, noise reduction, and noise filter?

I have gradation and noise filter on whatever is appropriate for the photograph, and sometimes I change them after the fact using raw edit. I'm a huge raw edit fan. I shoot raw+JPEG, and routinely delete all the raw files before importing the JPEGs into my photo management software. They're there for raw edit alone.

Noise reduction I keep on auto. It's one of the very few camera settings which cannot be replicated later, and its effect has always been a positive one: correcting for a known limitation in sensor design.

A Brit in Euroland · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2011, 08:49:24 AM »

@ Brianetta
QUOTE: Noise reduction I keep on auto. It's one of the very few camera settings which cannot be replicated later, and its effect has always been a positive one: correcting for a known limitation in sensor design. UNQUOTE

I read what you wrote, took out my manual, and the EP1 and found out that I can't seem to set to Noise Reduction to anything, as it is "off", in the G menu, and light displayed, as non available.... Perhaps you have an idea as to what I might do ?

Thanks,

adash · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2011, 11:10:52 AM »

The "Noise reduction" is a confusing setting. When setting it to ON, the camera will make a second exposure after the original one, but with the shutter closed, and then subtract that dark frame from the original one. This is to reduce the effect of any hot pixels that you may have. This option is not valid if series shooting is selected.
The actual noise reduction is in "Noise Filtering" and you may want to play with that setting a bit. Do not set it to High as it eats up all of the fine detail.

A Brit in Euroland · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2011, 01:44:23 PM »

thank you for that I have found out what was wrong.... I think my 11 year old daughter, who likes to borrow my kit, rather liked the idea of sequential shooting, and therefore....

exzrael · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2011, 10:08:04 PM »

This is what I use and it works perfectly well in most of my photographic situations.

Noise Reduction - OFF
Noise Filter - LOW
Gradation - NORMAL

Author Topic: E-P1 Noise at ISO200 (Read 3464 times)

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