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Author Topic: Same picture with ASP-C DSLR Sensor and M4/3 Sensor. What will be different IQ?  (Read 6796 times)

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Online asterinex

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I have two questions regaring IQ (nothing else):
1) What are the main benefits of a larger sensor regarding IQ?
2) We take 2 pictures, one with a ASP-C dslr and one with a m4/3 camera. Same picture, same lens, same ISO of 100
   A) What will be the difference ?
   B) What will be the differnce on a small print-out (for exemple 20x30 centimeters)
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Offline cosinaphile

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this is something id like to see lisandra , you have the gh2
i believe which is the current highpoint in m4\3 sensor goodness , a contrast with  some crops with a apsc machine would be illuminating ...with same focal l ..same iso.. f stop.. speed  camera position .. light conditions

and some pixel peeping crops!

Offline adash

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APS-C will be in theory marginally better, because of the larger pixel size. The difference is about 20% for the same pixel count, because of the different aspect ratios.
In practice however results will depend a lot depending on which exactly cameras you compare.
For example K-r is much softer than E-P1.
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this is something id like to see lisandra , you have the gh2
i believe which is the current highpoint in m4\3 sensor goodness , a contrast with  some crops with a apsc machine would be illuminating ...with same focal l ..same iso.. f stop.. speed  camera position .. light conditions

and some pixel peeping crops!

GH2 & G3 are currently at the top of pack....nothing close to them at the moment....

Offline lisandra

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I won't post an answer, instead ill post some samples later, I'll try to make it as  controlled as posible, manual focus, studio lights, you name it. Give me 2 hours or so.
Just for kicks, I won't post what shot was shot with what camera (that's part of my answer)
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

Panther

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Anyone own an APS-H camera?

Offline lisandra

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Anyone own an APS-H camera?
I could borrow one, it'll take a week
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

Panther

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Ah those Canon guys.....

Offline lisandra

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It's a weird size sensor, with an even weirder crop. But I think canons APS H 1d is phenomenal.
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

Panther

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I have what I consider to be a "nice" APS-C DSLR....

However, since the purpose of this thread is to show that...."only idiots buy over-priced APS-C DSLRs".....I won't post any pictures...

Instead, I'll just call myself an idiot & call it a day  8)

Offline Danny

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Its an interesting one and also one I'm sure a lot of us have thought about.

In a print as you mention, I doubt there would be a huge difference. In pixel peeping, there sure would be I guess, but I don't really consider that real life to be honest.

IMO it also depends on what subject. A brick wall for example, I can't imagine a major difference. However, on bird feathers and the fine details they hold I would not be surprised to see quite a bit of difference. Using the same lens that is and only a different sized sensor. Then again, that would also apply to APS-C sensors from different cameras as well. Tricky one.

Now thrown in a full 35mm sensor and its a whole new ball game :)
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Offline voyager

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For what it's worth I have two photos that are exactly the same with my E-P1 and K-x, but because of the different lenses used (14-42mm and 70-200mm) there will be important differences between the photos that would most likely not be present if I had used the same focal lengths.
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Offline lisandra

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I have what I consider to be a "nice" APS-C DSLR....

However, since the purpose of this thread is to show that...."only idiots buy over-priced APS-C DSLRs".....I won't post any pictures...

Instead, I'll just call myself an idiot & call it a day  8)
not what I want, so here's my two cents instead of photos:
At ISO 100, its difficult to tell the difference between 2 good performing cameras. If there's lots of complex light and shadows, the 4/3s sensor might clip faster than the APS C. You could get the same result, but you'd have to put in a bit more work to get the highlight detail. I'm assuming were shooting raw. The difference won't be astronomical, not  noticeable even if you expose correctly, but if you look for it you'll find it. If you go all the way to full frame the jump will be tremendous, you'll actually have a hard time clipping a highlight.
I PREFER 4/3s output, to me its sharper and easier to work with in ps. So that makes 4/3s better TO ME. That doesn't mean 4/3s is better, APS C will always have the slight edge, its physics. It's a preference thing, I certainly understand panther's frustration.
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

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For the most part I can't tell a huge difference, in high contrast photo's the larger sensor has an edge. And detail wise, with the 2 new sensors from P/O, it is a dang close race with similar priced DSLRs.

I think for a lot of us, it a moot argument...Yes, pixel peeping will reveal a difference. But, in printing, the interpolation may wipe it out, not sure though.
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Offline lisandra

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At least Ive never had a client say HEY!! these prints are from 2 different cameras!!!That one is APS C and that one is 4/3s!!!
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

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Can I conclude that there is no real noticable difference between a m4/3 and a ASP-C camera at ISO 100 ?
my Flickr account : http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdonath/
my website : www.wistjedat.net Did you know, trivia and pictures

Offline voyager

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There is. I actually have a test prepared.
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Offline lisandra

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Can I conclude that there is no real noticable difference between a m4/3 and a ASP-C camera at ISO 100 ?
There is, you reeeally have to look for it.
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

Offline yankl1

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I have two questions regaring IQ (nothing else):
1) What are the main benefits of a larger sensor regarding IQ?
2) We take 2 pictures, one with a ASP-C dslr and one with a m4/3 camera. Same picture, same lens, same ISO of 100
   A) What will be the difference ?
   B) What will be the differnce on a small print-out (for exemple 20x30 centimeters)


In small print outs you will hardly see any deference that is up to A4 size and on your regular PC screen but anything bigger will be bad you will see the pixels and IQ will be down.
From my experience and knowledge smaller CCD has smaller dynamic range and this will effect on picture IQ.
I am using Canon 30D APS 8MG which is relative an old camera from 2006 and I can pull out some outstanding photos from it, the major thing is the lens the higher the quality the better its depends directly on how much one wants to invest on a lens chip lens has low resolution expensive lens will have good and better resolution designed in it so you will get much better IQ in your photos.
See my photos in my gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/yankl1/collections/
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 11:53:23 PM by yankl1 »

Offline yotsuba

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Although I didn't compare the IQ between APS-C and M4/3 sensors, I did a DOF comparison between a full frame and m4/3 sensor. I thought I might as well post it here although is slightly off topic, lol.

Gears used:
D700 and 100mm f2.8 lens
EPL1 and 50mm @ f2.8 lens

The cameras were mounted on a (same) tripod, thus equal distance between both cameras and subject.


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Interesting. Definitely more DOF in the ASP-C version.
Thx for sharing !
my Flickr account : http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdonath/
my website : www.wistjedat.net Did you know, trivia and pictures

Offline mid_gen

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Well, my X100 beats my G1 hands down in every department. No contest!

Apart from the obvious ISO performance (12800 is about same level of noise as 1600), the dynamic range is much better, colours, contrast, detail, plus the narrower depth of field.

Things have come along though, the G3 is no doubt a big improvement.

Online Em5 Pete

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Interesting. Definitely more DOF in the ASP-C version.
Thx for sharing !

Because the 50mm f/2.8 on a m4/3 sensor has the same DOF of a 100mm at f/4, so if the 100mm is also at f/2.8, then it will have less DOF... the f/2.8 has not changed, just the DOF because of the format size difference.

Which is why m4/3 (or any smaller sensor than FF) needs faster glass to achieve similar DOF.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 05:52:44 PM by M5-User »
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Offline adash

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Quote
Interesting. Definitely more DOF in the ASP-C version.
D700 is Full Frame, not APS-C. Actually DOF is less with FF (DOF stands for Dept of field, the more DOF you have, the more of the scene is in sharp focus).
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Offline overflow

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Because the 50mm f/2.8 on a m4/3 sensor has the same DOF of a 100mm at f/4, so if the 100mm is also at f/2.8, then it will have less DOF... the f/2.8 has not changed, just the DOF because of the format size difference.

Which is why m4/3 (or any smaller sensor than FF) needs faster glass to achieve similar DOF.

Would actually be 100mm f/5.6 :)

Another way to think about why FF sensors have low light advantage over smaller sensors with the same resolution.  Just like the DOF changes by two stops, the equivalent ISO setting has to change two stops on the camera, so running a m4/3 camera at iso 100 has the same noise as a FF camera at iso 400. Given the exact same sensor.... which it isn't... cause they're different sizes...

Which is why I want my focal reducer to work! boo.

 

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