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Author Topic: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses  (Read 4434 times)

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Offline betoh

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where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« on: November 20, 2009, 03:54:32 AM »
Hi, I'm interesting in exploring some legacy lenses. I do not currently own anything (well except for the zoom kit that came with my pen1). I am also not a professional, meaning I do not want to spend a lot of money -exploration being more important.

What adapter should I get? In some post here people mentioned that Minolta Rokkor was a possibility (price, availability, adaptor cost) but the cmounts look very interesting as well.

So if you had to start from scratch where would you?

Offline thepeople

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 05:39:28 AM »
i'm in the same position as you mate...let's hear what the 'senior' would suggest :)

Offline whatkatiedoes

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 09:10:05 AM »
well I'm not an expert but i was in the same boat as you when i bought my E-P1. i bought the OM adapter and a few prime OM lenses (28mm, 50mm, 135mm). I think it was a good call as i use the 50mm all the time (and they also fit my old OM10 SLR which is a lovely camera).

Next step - I've asked for a 3-in-1 m42, m39 and c-mount adapter for christmas (link) so I can use cine and Pentax lenses.
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Offline joebee

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 11:30:14 AM »
Manual SLR lenses are cheap, e.g. Minolta MD or Canon FD (all the lenses which do not fit to modern AF SLR/DSLR bodies). But the E-P1/GF1 looses its major advantage: it's compact size due the removal of the mirror box. The adapter re-introduces the space between the sensor and the lens....

Rangefinder lenses (Leica M, M39, Contax G, Nikon S, ...) require only a very thin adapter. But these lenses are not as low priced as the SLR lenses are because these are still valuable collectibles.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 11:48:34 AM by joebee »

Offline joebee

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 11:41:30 AM »
I'm using Contax G lenses (I already owned them). They are very cheap today (especially concerning their superb image quality) but focusing is very slow, see http://e-p1.net/index.php?topic=930.0

I've also a Nikon F adapter (see http://e-p1.net/index.php?topic=718.0) but as mentioned above, this combo is not very compact (the E-Series lenses are cheap, small and light).

Some people are very satisfied by using Leica R lenses, see http://e-p1.net/index.php?topic=823.0

The Voigtlander lenses are great too: superb build quality, very small, they are using slim Leica M or M39 adapters and are very low priced even brand-new.

Guess any lens is fun to use with the E-P1/GF1. Go and quest for some nice lenses and buy a suitable adapter (I got mine from "RJ camera accessory store" at ebay. R.J. has now even a Nikon S lens adapter!). It's probably more important to decide which type of lens to buy than of which brand / lens mount they are, e.g. a fast 35mm or 50mm prime. I would not start with longer lenses than 105mm or 135mm (they become difficult to focus manually using the LCD).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 12:09:57 PM by joebee »

Offline peterb666

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 03:24:29 PM »
I have an OM adapter with 28mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 50mm f/3.5 macro and 200mm f/4 lenses. Many of the more desirable lenses such as the 24mm f/2, 28mm f/2, 85, 100 and 180mm are sold at silly prices but the more mundane lenses represent good buying.

Any of the 50mm lenses makes a good portrait lens, the 200mm f/4 is cheap and a great manual focus lens for those times when you cannot use AF. The lack of an infinity focus stop on the AF lenses for MFT make them awkward to use in very low light.

I don't have any problem focusing the longer manual lenses on the E-P1. You just don't bother with the LCD zoom function unless you have the camera on a tripod. Lenses up to 200mm can be focused manually without a tripod without too much drama. I would think that lenses over 200mm would be best used with a tripod most of the time anyway.

Some of the old Nikon and Minolta lenses offer good value for money and an adapter is as cheap as chips.
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Offline peterb666

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 03:31:08 PM »
Next step - I've asked for a 3-in-1 m42, m39 and c-mount adapter for christmas (link) so I can use cine and Pentax lenses.


I would througly recommend you buy dedicated adapters for each of those lens types. The cost won't be significantly different and you won't have the play that you get in a doubled up adapter arrangment.

I have a MFT to FT adapter coupled with an FT to OM adapter for my OM lenses. I wound up with this as MFT to OM adapters were not readily available at the time.

I also have a MFT to C-mount adapter coupled with Robot flange for my Schneider Robot lens.

The latter is fine (and was quite expensive for what it is) but there is too much slack in the FMT to FT to OM combination, so I am sticking to dedicated adapters from now on.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 03:38:53 PM by peterb666 »
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Offline laptoprob

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2009, 12:35:40 AM »
I came from rangefinders, so I already have some glass. The wider than 25mm have been sold already, the 25mm Canon rf is still for sale. Instead of the wonderful set of wideangle FF lenses I gor the Panny 7-14 which covers the lot very well.
The only new type of adapter I got especiallly for the m4/3 mount was for the C-mount. I got a Pentax-Cosmicar 25 that seems to do very nicely.
Oh yes, and I have a Minolta AF/Sony adapter coming for my MD 300/4,5 which I converted earlier to AF mount.

Offline betoh

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2009, 06:20:15 AM »
ok, thanks all for the advice. So, what am going to do is see what lens I find. Lens first adapter second. Having said this it seems that:

- Range finder lenses in terms of sizes might fit better.
- Shorter is the way to go (25mm, 50mm, etc)
- C mounts are fun with some possible cheap glass
- Minolta lenses and OM's can be pretty affordable

Offline cosinaphile

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2009, 06:51:25 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" I came from rangefinders, so I already have some glass. The wider than 25mm have been sold already, the 25mm Canon rf is still for sale. Instead of the wonderful set of wideangle FF lenses I gor the Panny 7-14 which covers the lot very well.
The only new type of adapter I got especiallly for the m4/3 mount was for the C-mount. I got a Pentax-Cosmicar 25 that seems to do very nicely.
Oh yes, and I have a Minolta AF/Sony adapter coming for my MD 300/4,5 which I converted earlier to AF mount. "



do the cosmicars vignette at all with the adapters you use??

Offline laptoprob

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 07:08:25 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do the cosmicars vignette at all with the adapters you use??


Well, I have only the Pentax Cosmicar 25/1,4. And only JR's adapter. I wasn't at home this morning when the Hawke one came by. I don't think it will matter much which adapter I use.
Mine starts vignetting at 5,6. So it has sharp black corners when fully stopped down, especially at infinity. Wide open the vignetting edge becomes unsharp. At close focus the focal length is slightly longer, so less vignetting.

Offline cosinaphile

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 07:21:54 AM »
ibelieve i read of a modification to the rear of the lens that allows it to be brought closer to the sensor that helps correct this

Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 01:11:53 PM »
As indicated above, I am one of those happy users of Leica-R legacy glass with my E-P1.

Both with Leica-R and OM lenses, I have found it's easier to rely on the E-P1's LCD for focusing manually with telephotos rather than wide angles or normal primes.

I guess this confirms the extensive experience John Foster shared with us in his evaluation of Olympus OM lenses with an E-P1.

In deciding which OM primes to buy for your µ4/3 body, it's also useful to pay close attention to the aperture ranges Olympus recommends.

Good luck.

Offline count_zero

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 01:56:15 PM »
What is the criteria for determining Olympus' "recommended" apature range?  It's strange that the zukio 50mm f1.2 is recommended to use f4-8, whereas the 55mm F1.2 is recommended to use f2.8-8.

Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 05:27:11 PM »
The explanation can be found in the 7th bullet point after the introductory paragraph to the OM Compatibility Table:

"Because the OM-Series lenses were designed for use with film rather than a digital sensor, there are practical restrictions on the focal length and aperture (F number) that can be used. Certain settings will not produce a quality image... It is not recommended to use lenses or to shoot with settings that are not shown in the table. Recommendations are based on Olympus' testing standard."

Offline count_zero

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 06:02:01 PM »
Yeah, I read that statement the first time, it's extremely vague.  I would think the 50mm F1.2 should be equivalent or slightly better quality than the 55mm F1.2 due to the crop wide open and it being a newer model with improved coatings.  The recommended aperture implies that the 55mm is a superior lens.  Not only that, but according to the table your better off getting the 50mm F1.8 and save some money (close to $200). 

When I read that statement, it sounds like a total CYA (cover your ass) engineering release note.  You figure the newer 4/3 zukio lenses are designed for the 4/3 cropped sensor, meaning they cut cost by not polishing and coating the corners as much as they would with lenses designed for FF/Film.  I guess you can call that "optimized" for digital 4/3.  Basically, they don't want a customer call in with a complaint that their OM camera takes better quality images than their new E camera.  So, they make up these bogus tables and statements just to get out of supporting legacy OM lenses.  I mean who is going to complain that their image is not as sharp as it should be at F4 with the doubling in DOF the 4/3 sensor gives you? 

Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 08:59:39 PM »
Well, I guess that's one possible interpretation.

Another one is, quite simply, that OM glass is not optimized for digital.

As a result, with two or three exceptions, you get optical distortions such as coma, astigmatism, chromatic aberrations, soft focus, etc. at the widest apertures.

And of course, diffraction as you stop down beyond f/8.

Nothing new, really.

It's what happens to the CaNikons with their own, supposedly "fully" compatible, legacy glass, once they try to use it with their newer, higher resolution sensors...

At least Olympus is sincere when issuing a compatibility table listing the acceptable apertures for the use of OM glass with digital sensors.

You won't find anything of the sort in the CaNikon world!

Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 09:15:52 PM »
You figure the newer 4/3 zukio lenses are designed for the 4/3 cropped sensor, meaning they cut cost by not polishing and coating the corners as much as they would with lenses designed for FF/Film.  I guess you can call that "optimized" for digital 4/3.  Basically, they don't want a customer call in with a complaint that their OM camera takes better quality images than their new E camera.  So, they make up these bogus tables and statements just to get out of supporting legacy OM lenses.  I mean who is going to complain that their image is not as sharp as it should be at F4 with the doubling in DOF the 4/3 sensor gives you?  


See any polishing or coating problems in the corners of the lenses tested below?

ZD 50mm f/2 ED

ZD 12-60mm f/2.8-4.0 ED SWD
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 09:18:24 PM by Federico Alberto »

Offline count_zero

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 01:10:23 AM »
Yeah, I didn't think about the telecentric advantage 4/3 sensor gives you.  The wide angle Zeiss lenses suffer greatly (at least that's what I've read) because of oblique incident light hitting the sensor at too great of an angle.  FF sensors use micro lenses to compensate for oblique light, which drives up their cost severely.  That's probably why the 55mm F1.2 is better than the newer 50mm F1.2, it's more 4/3 telecentric friendly.   

"And of course, diffraction as you stop down beyond f/8."

Would you say that 150mm m.zukio is sharper at F22 (f44 equiv) focus at infinity than a 300mm OM lens set at F22?  Theoretically, I would say yes.

I've said this many times before that I would actually prefer an even smaller sensor than 4/3 to gain DOF especially in low light, and just use digital processing to simulate bokeh etc...  the tilt-shift filter on the EP-2 is probably Oly's way of easing the customer into a simulated bokeh.  If they can make lenses more telecentric cheaply with smaller sensors, that's even better.  As long as the sensor doesn't sacrifice resolution and noise at high ISO, make it smaller.  The great thing about software is that its a one time R&D investment.  One year after the technology reaches the market, the R&D cost is paid off (assuming it sells), and then the company just milks profits for years later.

Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2010, 07:01:05 AM »
One of the lightest and cheapest OM lenses available is the 200mm f/4.

It's not supposed to be good in terms of IQ or anything else.

My experience, however, is rather satisfactory...:


Sunny Summer Memories
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 07:05:34 AM by Federico Alberto »

Offline voyager

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Re: where to start from scratch with legacy lenses
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 07:01:40 AM »
That looks pretty good to me.
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