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Author Topic: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review  (Read 3079 times)

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Offline Gakuranman

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Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« on: September 25, 2009, 03:48:05 AM »
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_20_1p7_o20/

Here it is! I just put in an order for one here in Japan.

One question (basic photography question): the 17mm Olympus pancake stops down to f22, where the Panasonic 20mm only goes to f16. What sort of difference will this make in usage and sharpness ?

Offline Jman

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2009, 05:06:25 AM »
It will make a small bit of difference in maximum DOF achievable.  However, since diffraction sets in on the 4/3 sensor at around f/8 or f/11, it's not a big deal.  The thing is, because of the shorter focal lengths used for the same FOV, f/8 or f/11 will often give you more than enough DOF for most situations, so you don't need to stop down that far.
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Offline Thomas Crown

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 06:21:45 AM »
I just read the review and the lens achieves all my expectations, I can´t wait to have it and try by myself.

Offline Jman

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 06:57:40 AM »
Indeed.  I have one on preorder...can't wait till I get it.
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Offline cosinaphile

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 07:14:44 AM »
the lens barrel  diameter size should have been , and could have ,been similar to the panny 14 -45 or smaller imo ,also this huge hockey puck of a lens [but  sufficently flat i concede] , which dismayingly, [for panny owners ] does NOT have OIS , looks pretty good  for olympus owners in the image quality dept , which is what really counts for me

im beginning to trust the objectivity of dp reviews less and less in the  past year, in the cons of this lens review conclusion it only lists price ,land not the lack of ois in a lens designed by a manufacterer that does not offer in body stabilization in any of its m4\3 cameras. this in a 400 dollar lens?? also i cannot understand why this lens is not  1.4 or even 1.2...

ive said it before and ill say it again here , the lens looks to me like a hockey puck with a coin sized optical element in the middle.. even at these very wide f stops  0f f 1 .4 or faster, the glass and mechanics would not have exceeded the size  that  is used in , say the "normal' 1.8 full frame nikon that  sells for about $110 dollars, and is a fine, well made lens designed for an image circle 4 times the size that  employed in m4\3

lack of ois is most definately a  BIG con for most of the intended users [gf-1, other g series users] of this otherwise fine lens, dp reviews decision not to mention a stronger objection to this defecit is curious to me , it should have been mentioned in cons  
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 07:30:30 AM by cosinaphile »

Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 10:16:53 AM »
Lack of OIS is not really that significant at that focal length. Even if sensor stabilization is available.

To me the biggest problem is Olympus' lack of in-camera digital correction for the optical distortion inherent to Lumix G lenses.

Until I see realised the promise of full compatibility announced back in June as part of the E-P1 firmware upgrade, I won't be buying this otherwise tempting lens.

Offline Jman

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 10:18:30 AM »
Remember that pancake designs are quite different from standard optics, and require smaller elements...going to a 20 f/1.4 or f/1.2 would probably have not been possible keeping it in the pancake optical design...it would have necessitated a change to a standard optical design, which would likely have doubled the length.

And, um, the Pen DOES correct the distortions on the 20/1.7.  Distortion correction is contained in the lens firmware, not in the bodies.  DPReview confirms this.
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Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 12:28:54 PM »
And, um, the Pen DOES correct the distortions on the 20/1.7.  Distortion correction is contained in the lens firmware, not in the bodies.  DPReview confirms this.


Really? It seems we didn't read the same review...

Quote
Chromatic Aberration

Lateral chromatic aberration is automatically corrected when the lens is used on Panasonic bodies, but Olympus E-P1 owners won't get this benefit, regardless of whether they use out-of-camera jpegs or raw conversions (at least from Olympus Master or Adobe Camera Raw / Lightroom. This isn't necessarily a disaster - the 20mm F1.7 doesn't show particularly objectionable levels of fringing anyway. (Westlake, Andy: "Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Review". London: DPReview, September 2009 - http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_20_1p7_o20/page3.asp)

Overall Conclusion

[...] lateral chromatic aberration is not corrected when using this lens on the E-P1 [...] (Same source, http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_20_1p7_o20/page4.asp).

« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 12:53:22 PM by Federico Alberto »

Offline Luke

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 01:37:45 PM »
I was just wondering the same thing. I know I've seen e-p1 users raving about that lens. Are they not noticing the flaws, or is the camera actually correcting them. I was fairly certain that all the micro four thirds lenses were supposed to work on any body AND communicate with the camera. If anyone can confirm or deny it, that would be very helpful.

On a related note, I am smitten with the e-p1 but after reading up on all the lenses I feel like getting the Lumix lenses instead, so it would be very important to find if they work as they are designed. Has anyone tried them and compared? I don't plan on getting a bunch of lenses, just a few, so I'd like to get the best ones I can (without breaking the bank).

Offline popo

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 03:01:10 PM »
My understanding of the dpreview statements are that distortion is corrected on E-P1, but CA is not. I don't think the E-P1 corrects CA even on Oly lenses...

Regardless, this is possibly the best general lens yet for the E-P1 :) I don't have it on order, but I hope to soon...
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Offline Jman

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 03:23:24 PM »
Popo is correct...  Federico, you said distortions...it does correct distortions, it doesn't correct CA.  The Oly bodies don't correct CA on Oly lenses either (easy to fix in Lightroom anyway). 
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Offline Federico Alberto

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 04:22:47 PM »
I must say in all fairness that the level of CA detected is not really that significant. Going through the charts again, there is a side-by-side comparison and of course the CA correction performed by Panasonic is almost complete. The uncorrected levels, as presented in the charts using an E-P1, are there but really are nothing to worry about (at or below 1% at all apertures).

And as Jman says, it can be corrected easily using Lightroom.

Now, lack of CA correction doesn't mean that all Lumix m4/3 lenses are incompatible with E-P1s. They are all compatible. I for one have taken full advantage of the superb Lumix G Vario 7-14mm f/4 ASPH:


Ready, Set...

Offline count_zero

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 06:40:22 PM »
I guess if you really want an auto-focus lens that sort of works in low light, it's a good deal.  Otherwise, if you have a low light lens, just get an adapter if you haven't already.   I don't know what the advantage is in having a pancake lens other than it makes the camera look like a G10.  Hopefully, Olympus will release a faster 17mm in October within the same price range.

Offline Gakuranman

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 09:54:12 PM »
I personally keep the 17mm pancake I currently have on my E-P1 90% of the time. I haven't really warmed to the zoom and the portability provided by using the pancake lens is priceless for me. I realised recently that I tend to be taking a lot of pictures in dimly-lit bars and at night, so I felt it worth the while splashing out for the new 20mm pancake, considering how much it will stay on the camera.

@count_zero Where does it say that Olympus are releasing a faster 17mm? Did I miss that piece of news?

Offline cosinaphile

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2009, 10:42:02 PM »
i do feel that is is necessary to have ois on a 20 mm lens..... remember the vibrations will be approx doubled as if a 40 mm lens was employed
the ois in camera of the ep-1 offers a manually settable 8 mm if im not mistaken , it must be usable at wider focal lengths if it offered by the camera designers, no?

a 40 mm normal- wide equiv prime will certainly benefit from ois in my opinion, even one stop is a wonderful benefit  , but g series owners will get no benefit unfortunately
a 20 on a full frame however is alot more forgiving and could probably get away without it

i would love to own the 7 -14  lens i hope tamron offers a similar lens for 5 or 600 soon so i can afford it
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 10:44:05 PM by cosinaphile »

Offline mid_gen

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2009, 05:01:49 AM »
There's no way you could cram an IS system inside a pancake lens that size. Really, with the ISO performance of the E-P1 I can't imagine a reason for having it unless you've got Parkinson's.

Offline popo

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2009, 05:34:46 AM »
I guess some people here don't shoot low light. I have found myself using a f/1.4 lens, with sensor shift stabilisation, at high ISO, and still needing more without reaching for a flash or tripod.

f/1.7 is a good start, particularly for a pancake. I still hope for longer/brighter pancakes in future.
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Offline cosinaphile

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2009, 09:32:12 AM »
of course you could fit ois in that lens .its in the barrel of the 14-45 panny a SMALLER diameter lens ois systems are used in hundreds of lenses in many cameras  that are much smaller

the 20 1.7 lens is practically all barrel! volume wise its probably close to 75 % barrel and the rest the optics and optical path, compare the barrel diameter and the front element size [ most of the internal element are smaller ]and do the math

 i think that lens is realitivly gigantic for what it is  and twice as expensive as it should be

Offline mid_gen

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2009, 02:53:09 AM »
You're right on the price....but they know GF1 and E-P1 owners are going to be all over a decent fast pancake so it's priced accordingly.

I'll still be getting one :S

Offline popo

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Re: Dpreview f1.7 20mm pancake lens review
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2009, 04:52:53 AM »
Generally OIS requires an additional group of lens elements in line with the rest of the lens. The diameter isn't the biggest problem, but the length of the lens will typically be longer to fit it.
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