Author Topic: 12mm Olympus - is it upstaged by the 12-35mm? (Read 3973 times)

Psynema · « **on:** August 28, 2011, 04:19:38 PM »

Was interested in the 12mm F2 but $800 and considering in under 6 months that could go towards the 12-35 which may be 2, 2.5...anyone else have a sudden change of plans on the 12mm? It may be possible to get up to a year out of it before switching, but anyone else hesitant now?

cosinaphile · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2011, 04:23:53 PM »

havinng just bought the tiny superb 12 oly , id say.....no

also primes usually give the best image q and are in the case of this 12 mm remarkably tiny, an important asset at times

peterb666 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2011, 05:29:46 PM »

Yeah, right. A lens that isn't available, is expected to cost 3 times as much, is 4 times the size or so and probably the weight, will have lower image quality and have other lens faults that are typical of the compromises of zooms.

I expect the 12-35mm lens when it becomes available will be good for its type but I won't be buying it unless I win 1st prize in a lottery.

delhaye · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2011, 09:19:07 AM »

Primes usually give best image quality, and size does matter.... I'd prefer the 12mm any given day!

voyager · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2011, 02:32:13 PM »

I doubt the 12-35mm quality (despite being amazing) will beat the 12mm f/2, especially wide open.

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2011, 05:53:31 PM »

Quote from: voyager on August 31, 2011, 02:32:13 PM

I doubt the 12-35mm quality (despite being amazing) will beat the 12mm f/2, especially wide open.

Probably not, but it will a great lens in any event. I just wish I had $$$ to buy a few of the new offerings... I really want the 45mm f/1.8... bad!!!...

lisandra · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2011, 11:16:34 PM »

Quote from: peterb666 on August 28, 2011, 05:29:46 PM

Yeah, right. A lens that isn't available, is expected to cost 3 times as much, is 4 times the size or so and probably the weight, will have lower image quality and have other lens faults that are typical of the compromises of zooms.

I expect the 12-35mm lens when it becomes available will be good for its type but I won't be buying it unless I win 1st prize in a lottery.

I wont be 4 or even 2 times as expensive, itll measure 3.20 inches, but youre right about IQ, primes usually take the cake here.
Im a zoomie.

peterb666 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2011, 12:20:25 AM »

Quote from: lisandra on August 31, 2011, 11:16:34 PM

I wont be 4 or even 2 times as expensive

When it gets released, expect a recommended list price of around $2.5K.

lisandra · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2011, 10:49:07 AM »

Quote from: peterb666 on September 01, 2011, 12:20:25 AM

Quote from: lisandra on August 31, 2011, 11:16:34 PM
I wont be 4 or even 2 times as expensive

When it gets released, expect a recommended list price of around $2.5K.

where did you get this? I know its not true

peterb666 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2011, 10:01:01 PM »

Lol - you cannot possibly know its not true as the pricing wont be decided until shortly before release. Expect pricing in line with other very fast zooms. You will be dissapointed if you are expecting a 1k price tag. I doubt Panasonic would risk their reputation on a cut price cheap fast zoom.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

peterb666 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2011, 01:22:53 AM »

Also Lisandra, if you have a think about it, when have you come across a lens from the same manufacturer that does not double in cost as you go up by 1-stop?

So for comparison, the new 14-42 f/3.5-5.6 pancake lens - $400

Going wider and to a constant f/4 aperture (think of Nikon when they replaced the 24-120mm recently and they didn't go wider), add 50% so now $600.

Go to f/2.8 constant aperture - double it and you have $1200.

Go to f/2 constant aperture - double it and you have $2400.

Does that seem so silly any more? Note that the Olympus 14-35mm f/2 sells for between $2200 and 2500. When was the last time a Panasonic lens put to the market for significantly less than an Olympus lens (yeah, I know one is MFT and the other is FT) and yet the 12-35mm Panny will go wider and that adds $$$$?

cosinaphile · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2011, 03:51:44 AM »

HERES MY GUESS 1200 to 1500 us dollars

Centauri27 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »

I think peterb666's logic is sound. I too have noticed a doubling in price for each f-stop in speed for a zoom lens. Hell, in some markets (like Canada), Panasonic charges better than a 50% premium for basically the same lens! (14-140: $1000 vs. Oly 14-150: $650). You're dreaming if you think the new Panasonic zooms will be $1500 or less, unless they're f/2.8 or slower.

peterb666 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2011, 04:19:23 PM »

I think the other thing you need to bear in mind is that these are not main-stream lenses and will sell in very small volumes. The development cost has to be reclaimed over a relatively small number of lenses compared to most.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2011, 09:16:05 PM »

the production number to cost thing is true but i think they will want to sell alot of these if they can, the lens at $2500 will get into very few hands, it will be bought buy a few "pros" and a few with money to burn,

but if the sell it for half that 12 or 1400.00 perhaps 10 times as many folks will buy it

my guess is that like the 50 1.4 panny leica and the panny 7-14mm when
micro 4\3 designs are finally realized for these two fast zooms they will be at least 35% cheaper than their 4\3 counterparts and hopefullly 40 to 50 % cheaper

remember what i said

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #15 on:** September 04, 2011, 04:24:06 PM »

Quote from: cosinaphile on September 02, 2011, 09:16:05 PM

the production number to cost thing is true but i think they will want to sell alot of these if they can, the lens at $2500 will get into very few hands, it will be bought buy a few "pros" and a few with money to burn,

but if the sell it for half that 12 or 1400.00 perhaps 10 times as many folks will buy it

my guess is that like the 50 1.4 panny leica and the panny 7-14mm when
micro 4\3 designs are finally realized for these two fast zooms they will be at least 35% cheaper than their 4\3 counterparts and hopefullly 40 to 50 % cheaper

remember what i said

I think (and hope) you are right... still out of my range by a long shot, but they will make more return in the long run by having a lower profit margin, and selling a ton of them... over selling to a small Pro market.. The Advanced photographer crowd will buy much more higher end stuff, and is a bigger market than the Pro and beginner market combined... I am guessing here.... but, I think that market is a lot a bigger than many think.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2011, 07:25:52 PM »

totally agree

peterb666 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 04, 2011, 11:05:30 PM »

I am sure that the accountants at Panasinic will be working overtime to determine if low volume & high profit or larger volume and low profit is better.

I would think there is a major consumer stumbling block around the 1k mark. For advanced users around 1.5k and there isn't a really a pro market in MFT yet so the next mark of 2.5k is limited.

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Centauri27 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2011, 09:27:44 AM »

Yes, Panasonic will have to decide whether it wants to be Apple or HP.

Micro Four Thirds is outgrowing its "niche" status and their products better be competitive with the mainstream DSLR lenses. (Oh Sigma, where are you when we need you?? $:-\$ )

voyager · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2011, 04:31:31 PM »

I simply don't see how the Panasonic 12-35mm could be as expensive as people are making it out to be. Panasonic isn't as stupid as Olympus when it comes to pricing lenses.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2011, 08:59:24 AM »

Quote from: voyager on September 06, 2011, 04:31:31 PM

I simply don't see how the Panasonic 12-35mm could be as expensive as people are making it out to be. Panasonic isn't as stupid as Olympus when it comes to pricing lenses.

I don't know about that--up here in Canada at least, the Panasonic lenses are significantly more expensive than the Olympus versions. I know that part of it is probably because of the lens-based IS, and part is because Panasonic uses the expensive "Leica" name on some lens (hello 45mm macro!). Maybe it's just the Panasonic Canada that's shafting us.

bug · « **Reply #21 on:** September 09, 2011, 10:57:39 PM »

I think the problem is you all start with the wrong assumption, that this is gonna be an f/2 lens. The strength of this system is it's compact size and not it's low light capability. Even if Panasonic announced an f/2 lens it couldn't even get close to a D700 with a fast lens. What the m4/3 system needs a premium standard zoom which is faster then f/3,5 but still light weight, so I'd guess the new lens is going to be something more like a constant f/2.8 or f/2.5, maybe a changing aperture lens like eg. f/2-f/2.8
This would still make a very desirable lens with a reasonable price tag.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #22 on:** September 10, 2011, 04:35:15 AM »

yes, i agree
a 2- 2.8 could be much smaller and still offer lots of light for a zoom .....it would indeed make more sense for size and price point

Em5 Pete · « **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2011, 12:24:40 PM »

I hope it is in the $1k to 1.3k range...Look at the Oly 45mm f/1.8... $399, we all thought it would be more, so a nice 12-35 f/2.5-3.5 would be welcomed...

peterb666 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2011, 07:03:15 PM »

Quote from: voyager on September 06, 2011, 04:31:31 PM

I simply don't see how the Panasonic 12-35mm could be as expensive as people are making it out to be. Panasonic isn't as stupid as Olympus when it comes to pricing lenses.

Have you checked the price of Panasonic lenses recently?

In Australia, Panasonic lenses retail at least 50% more than non-kit Olympus lenses. For example, the Panasonic 14-140mm zoom is around $1400 and the Olympus 14-150mm zoom around $750.

Even US pricing indicates that Panasonic normally charge dramatically more than Olympus, e.g. at B&H you can have the Panasonic 14-140mm zoom for $789 however the Olympus 14-150mm zoom only $519.

Now who is stupid with the pricing?

Author Topic: 12mm Olympus - is it upstaged by the 12-35mm? (Read 3973 times)

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