Author Topic: Why is the video so noisy, even with the larger sensor? (Read 4150 times)

Centauri27 · « **on:** July 18, 2011, 02:23:59 PM »

This is one thing I can't figure out: It's a fact that larger sensors produce cleaner, less noisy images than smaller sensors. The m4/3 sensor is about 8x the size of a compact digicam sensor, which in turn is larger than the sensor than on a typical camcorder. So logically, the m4/3 sensor should out-perform a small camcorder sensor, right? However, that's not been my experience. I've used 8mm, Hi-8, and Mini-DV camcorders in the past noise has rarely been a problem. But with my E-P1, the noise is very obvious in low light shots, and is downright embarrassing when videoing something against the night sky--for example, fireworks.

At first, I thought it was maybe because camcorders typically sport faster lenses (f/1.8 or faster). But I discovered even when using my 20mm @ f/1.7, the noise is still very obvious.

Is this because of the differences between how the sensor processes video vs. still images? I've read that I can minimize the video noise by cranking the noise reduction setting to 'High', but I don't do this because I'll end up forgetting to change it back when I go back to shooting stills.

Does anyone have any ideas?

tamoio · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2011, 04:42:40 PM »

You are shooting with your settings completely in manual, right?

lisandra · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2011, 01:19:10 AM »

Have you checked the exif on those videos?

adash · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2011, 01:39:26 AM »

I just did a quick test (the only video within a year or so) and yes, dark areas get noisy. Dark here means a single 60W incandescent bulb about ten feet away.

cosinaphile · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2011, 03:29:59 AM »

my ep1 is noisy for stills at iso 200, i delibrately onderexpose to save hkghlight sometimes , and it of course gets worse

Centauri27 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2011, 09:59:51 AM »

Quote from: tamoio on July 18, 2011, 04:42:40 PM

You are shooting with your settings completely in manual, right?

No, not really. The E-P1 doesn't offer much manual control in video--it's mainly choosing between shooting aperture priority or program mode. Even the ISO is non-controllable on video. I shoot my videos on program mode. All the noise reduction settings are at default.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:01:41 AM »

Quote from: lisandra on July 19, 2011, 01:19:10 AM

Have you checked the exif on those videos?

No, I haven't. I take a look--I'll probably find that the camera has cranked up the ISO for low light shots and that's what's causing the excessive noise!

(But then, don't camcorders up the ISO in low light as well?)

Centauri27 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:06:18 AM »

Quote from: adash on July 19, 2011, 01:39:26 AM

I just did a quick test (the only video within a year or so) and yes, dark areas get noisy. Dark here means a single 60W incandescent bulb about ten feet away.

Yes, dark areas are quite noisy. But here's the odd thing: I was videoing the water show at the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas. It was at night, with the hotel brightly lit, but the sky was dark. When I started videoing, before the water jets shot up, the sky is nice and dark and noise free in my video. But as soon as the show begins and the brightly lit water jets fire, you can see that the dark sky becomes a blotchy mottled mess of noise. I get the same results when videoing fireworks: sky nice and black, then fireworks light up the sky and the video turns into an embarrassing mess of noise. $:-\$

asterinex · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:10:14 AM »

It is probably the compression that causes the noise.

lisandra · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2011, 03:19:04 PM »

Quote from: Centauri27 on July 19, 2011, 10:01:41 AM

Quote from: lisandra on July 19, 2011, 01:19:10 AM
Have you checked the exif on those videos?

No, I haven't. I take a look--I'll probably find that the camera has cranked up the ISO for low light shots and that's what's causing the excessive noise! (But then, don't camcorders up the ISO in low light as well?)

they do, but most camcorders (consumer) don't go higher than ISO 400 and apply a hefty amount of noise reduction to that ISO 400. The pen on auto ISO will go to the safest (highest) ISO it can (1600-3200) and use the current noise reduction settings you have for photo. If you could see even 50% crops of those videos you'd have a heart attack at the amount of detail lost in the camcorder.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2011, 03:39:48 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on July 19, 2011, 03:19:04 PM

Quote from: Centauri27 on July 19, 2011, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: lisandra on July 19, 2011, 01:19:10 AM
Have you checked the exif on those videos?

No, I haven't. I take a look--I'll probably find that the camera has cranked up the ISO for low light shots and that's what's causing the excessive noise! (But then, don't camcorders up the ISO in low light as well?)
they do, but most camcorders (consumer) don't go higher than ISO 400 and apply a hefty amount of noise reduction to that ISO 400. The pen on auto ISO will go to the safest (highest) ISO it can (1600-3200) and use the current noise reduction settings you have for photo. If you could see even 50% crops of those videos you'd have a heart attack at the amount of detail lost in the camcorder.

Those are very good points, lisandra. I'll check the exif of my current videos, then restrict auto ISO to 400, crank up the noise reduction, then see if my E-P1 can produce less noisy videos. I realize that stills from a camcorder are shockingly lacking in detail, but then my goal for a video is to simply have it look good on TV--there's no real need to preserve a lot of details because you can't crop or enlarge a video, like with a still photo. (That also explains why most camcorders typically produce lower-res still photos.)

Of course, the thing that'll kill me is that if these changes work (i.e., produces better videos), I'll have to remember to change them back and forth each time I video, because the E-P1 uses the same settings for vids and stills!

mikmas101 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2011, 03:55:53 PM »

In my experience of both EP models the E-P1 suffers from more noise than the E-P2 - particularly chromatic noise in dark areas which can be quite chronic even at low ISO. It was bad with my CV lenses but even worse with the stock zoom lens - I had a rant about it here some time back. Never really noticed it since getting the E-P2 so perhaps that was part of the Oly upgrade at that time.

lisandra · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2011, 08:07:04 PM »

Quote from: Centauri27 on July 19, 2011, 03:39:48 PM

Quote from: lisandra on July 19, 2011, 03:19:04 PM
Quote from: Centauri27 on July 19, 2011, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: lisandra on July 19, 2011, 01:19:10 AM
Have you checked the exif on those videos?

No, I haven't. I take a look--I'll probably find that the camera has cranked up the ISO for low light shots and that's what's causing the excessive noise! (But then, don't camcorders up the ISO in low light as well?)
they do, but most camcorders (consumer) don't go higher than ISO 400 and apply a hefty amount of noise reduction to that ISO 400. The pen on auto ISO will go to the safest (highest) ISO it can (1600-3200) and use the current noise reduction settings you have for photo. If you could see even 50% crops of those videos you'd have a heart attack at the amount of detail lost in the camcorder.

Those are very good points, lisandra. I'll check the exif of my current videos, then restrict auto ISO to 400, crank up the noise reduction, then see if my E-P1 can produce less noisy videos. I realize that stills from a camcorder are shockingly lacking in detail, but then my goal for a video is to simply have it look good on TV--there's no real need to preserve a lot of details because you can't crop or enlarge a video, like with a still photo. (That also explains why most camcorders typically produce lower-res still photos.)

Of course, the thing that'll kill me is that if these changes work (i.e., produces better videos), I'll have to remember to change them back and forth each time I video, because the E-P1 uses the same settings for vids and stills!

I dont remember how much control one could have over the settings in video mode on the PEN but, set your noise reduction to its highest, sharpness to its lowest or near lowest, turn off all shadow recovery tricks, and possibly a minus 1 contrast to avoid clipping. set the lowest shutter speed acceptable for video (most agree its twice the focal length youre using, so 1/40 or 1/30 on the panny). Once all of that is done, set ISO from there, video doesn't have to be as brightly exposed as photo, otherwise it doesn't really look natural.

tamoio · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:56:31 PM »

Quote from: Centauri27 on July 19, 2011, 09:59:51 AM

Quote from: tamoio on July 18, 2011, 04:42:40 PM
You are shooting with your settings completely in manual, right?

No, not really. The E-P1 doesn't offer much manual control in video--it's mainly choosing between shooting aperture priority or program mode. Even the ISO is non-controllable on video. I shoot my videos on program mode. All the noise reduction settings are at default.

Yeah, I only shot video with the E-P2 and never in really low light conditions. I'm sure the auto ISO is the leading culprit but I was never impressed with the Olympus motion jpeg codec either.

Centauri27 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2011, 09:09:21 AM »

So I wonder: does this issue affect all DSLR video or just the PEN? Can anyone with a video-capable DSLR comment on this? How about Panasonic m4/3 video shooters?

tamoio · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2011, 09:37:37 AM »

Quote from: Centauri27 on July 22, 2011, 09:09:21 AM

So I wonder: does this issue affect all DSLR video or just the PEN? Can anyone with a video-capable DSLR comment on this? How about Panasonic m4/3 video shooters?

No, it absolutely does not affect the others, at least not Canon 7d, 5d, 60d, Panasonic GH1/2. The reason people use those cameras is the quality of the video, clean as a whistle.

I recommend anyone that wants to try shooting video pick up a used GH1, its really the best bang--for-the-buck in a still cam for video.

lisandra · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2011, 09:42:17 AM »

There's all the control in the world with the gh2, and it handles video different than photos. This is ISO 2000 at 1/50 sec handheld. You cqn switch over to full hd but YouTube doesn't do it justice


GH2 dynamic b&w ISO 2000, cinema 24p

Author Topic: Why is the video so noisy, even with the larger sensor? (Read 4150 times)

adash

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