Author Topic: Help me build a PC? (Read 1520 times)

JPorto · « **on:** February 13, 2012, 06:30:49 AM »

Just got my GH2. Installed the hack. Now just waiting on lenses, and while I wait, was thinking about building a PC dedicated for photo/video editing. I do have a Mac Pro, but would like to keep that for audio. Let's build!

Jman · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:40:11 AM »

Best bang for buck is a Core i5 2500K right now. I just did a build (an upgrade from my previous, so I kept my video card, hard drives, power supply and case) with that chip, a Gigabyte Z68 motherboard and 16GB of DDR3 RAM. The thing absolutely screams. I recreated one of the things I did with my old machine (core 2 Duo with 4 GB RAM), that brought it to its knees. On the old machine, it took me nearly 45 minutes...I took a 6 image stitch of GH2 files, at two different exposures (so 12 total images), did a pano stitch on both and HDRed them. The old machine was completely humbled by this, taking about 10 minutes per stitch and about 20 minutes to do all the HDR stuff (loading, aligning, going through the previews to set up what I wanted and the final HDR merge).

I did it on the new machine? 5 minutes, including the work of selecting the images, exporting, and inputting all the commands. The merge to HDR took less than 40 seconds.

Photoshop opens in one second.

adash · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:10:57 AM »

I built a PC around a 4x core Athlon, 4x3GHz, very power efficient. It was basically the cheapest 4x core with 45nm in stock at time of purchase. Well, i5 was not there at all when I built my last PC, but you may still want to explore that route. Unbelievably quiet with box fan too. Proudly running Ubuntu, which required no adjustment at all when I plugged the disks from the old P4.

E-M5 Pete · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:00:49 AM »

Why not the Intel i7? it is $500 or so, but, faster, more threads, and the i7 are warp 9, but $1000+

i7 Extreme

i7 Standard

tamoio · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:09:38 AM »

Somewhere on here (if you do a search) you should be able to find the thread where I built one of my I7 workstations, with photos. If not I could post it again.

Jman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:34:48 AM »

Quote from: M5-User on February 13, 2012, 11:00:49 AM

Why not the Intel i7? it is $500 or so, but, faster, more threads, and the i7 are warp 9, but $1000+

i7 Extreme

i7 Standard

The current i7s are faster, but not hugely so over the i5. It's going to be a question of how much extra do you want to spend. It's about a 50% price premium, but is certainly not a 50% improvement in speed.

Summary of benchmarks between i5 2500K and i7 2600K:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=287

In the case of the i7 extreme, I think it's only a viable solution if you absolutely need the best performance and money is no object. It's 5x the cost of the i5 2500K and yet on average is only about 15% faster (though in some things, it is much faster, such as 3D modeling or video encoding). If you are encoding huge amounts of HD video, it might be worth it, but it's going to be extremely budget dependent.
Summary of benchmarks between i5 2500K and i7 3960 Extreme:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=443

tamoio · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:46:24 AM »

http://e-p1.net/coffee-talk/my-weekend-project/msg26748/#msg26748

JPorto · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:03:53 PM »

Jman,
Have you done any video work specifically with the hacked GH2 on your new system? Your photos are top notch btw, man.

Anyhow,
I am looking for the most efficient means of building a modest Video editing PC. Emphasis on video becuase that would be my primary reason for building one. If anyone has experience editing AVCHD 44mbit on their systems I'd like to hear about the makeup of specs.

I'll look into the i5 and i7 comparisons, and I'll search for Tamoio's thread. I recently saw the beast that Lisandra put together and something like that would be out of my range. Will check back, and thanks!

cosinaphile · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2012, 01:52:59 PM »

Quote from: Jman on February 13, 2012, 11:34:48 AM

Quote from: M5-User on February 13, 2012, 11:00:49 AM
Why not the Intel i7? it is $500 or so, but, faster, more threads, and the i7 are warp 9, but $1000+

i7 Extreme

i7 Standard

The current i7s are faster, but not hugely so over the i5. It's going to be a question of how much extra do you want to spend. It's about a 50% price premium, but is certainly not a 50% improvement in speed.

Summary of benchmarks between i5 2500K and i7 2600K:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=287

In the case of the i7 extreme, I think it's only a viable solution if you absolutely need the best performance and money is no object. It's 5x the cost of the i5 2500K and yet on average is only about 15% faster (though in some things, it is much faster, such as 3D modeling or video encoding). If you are encoding huge amounts of HD video, it might be worth it, but it's going to be extremely budget dependent.
Summary of benchmarks between i5 2500K and i7 3960 Extreme:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=443

totally agree 90 % plus of the i7 performance for dramaticlly lower cost
use the savingd for a hard drive with a good cache and specs and lots of memory

its cash better spent

Jman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:34:47 PM »

Quote from: cosinaphile on February 13, 2012, 01:52:59 PM

Quote from: Jman on February 13, 2012, 11:34:48 AM
Quote from: M5-User on February 13, 2012, 11:00:49 AM
Why not the Intel i7? it is $500 or so, but, faster, more threads, and the i7 are warp 9, but $1000+

i7 Extreme

i7 Standard

The current i7s are faster, but not hugely so over the i5. It's going to be a question of how much extra do you want to spend. It's about a 50% price premium, but is certainly not a 50% improvement in speed.

Summary of benchmarks between i5 2500K and i7 2600K:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=287

In the case of the i7 extreme, I think it's only a viable solution if you absolutely need the best performance and money is no object. It's 5x the cost of the i5 2500K and yet on average is only about 15% faster (though in some things, it is much faster, such as 3D modeling or video encoding). If you are encoding huge amounts of HD video, it might be worth it, but it's going to be extremely budget dependent.
Summary of benchmarks between i5 2500K and i7 3960 Extreme:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=443

totally agree 90 % plus of the i7 performance for dramaticlly lower cost
use the savingd for a hard drive with a good cache and specs and lots of memory

its cash better spent

Or use the savings for a good SSD as the boot drive. I very nearly did this, but I still want a larger boot drive than 64 GB and don't want to spend $200 right now on a 128GB+.

tamoio · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:47:48 PM »

Day-in and day-out 90% of what I do is edit video for my living. AVCHD h.264 despite all the criticisms is a modern miracle, for internet content vanilla AVCHD is currently all you need. If you want to edit AVCHD get Adobe Premier 5.5 or better yet sign up for a few local university classes and get the student discount for CS 5.5.

When considering a computer for editing AVCHD pay very close attention to the specifications from Adobe, particularly the approved nVidia video cards, processors and RAM. SSDs are not necessary, the bit rate of AVCHD isn't really that high (thats the miracle part) but what is important is multi-core processor horsepower-AVCHD encoding is processor intensive.

I would estimate that I have made at least $50k (pre tax) with the machine that I built in that posting more than a year ago, it is an edit workhorse. I upgraded the RAM to 16gb but it actually worked fine with 12gb (which is the minimum I would recommend). This system was a fraction of the cost of an equivalent Mac based FCP system and the FCP system that was available when I built would not edit AVCHD native (no transcode step). As a reference-the AVID media-composer system that I used when I was working in broadcast a couple years ago (dual xeon HP workstations with fiber-channel) cost about X 10 and did Adobe After-effects full HD renders about X 5 slower.

JPorto · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:23:50 AM »

Tamoio I searched through your posts but didn't find a thread on your i7 system.

adash · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:06:46 AM »

Quote from: JPorto on February 14, 2012, 02:23:50 AM

Tamoio I searched through your posts but didn't find a thread on your i7 system.

http://e-p1.net/coffee-talk/my-weekend-project/

Jman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2012, 05:33:43 AM »

Please note that the i7 that Tamoio used in his build is a first generation i7. The second generation (sandy bridge) i5 is generally faster than the older i7.

This is a comparison with Tamoio's chip (in light blue) with the Core i5 2500K (in black): http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/99?vs=288

The i5 is faster in about 80% of the benchmarks, include some of the video processing benchmarks, with the i7 only beating it out in things like second pass x264 encoding (though the i5 is faster on first pass).

So, again...look at your budget. If you don't want to spend a lot...get a current i5 (four digit model number)...you'll spend a lot less money and get very comparable performance. A second gen i7 (four digit model number) will be faster, but cost a fair amount more. You'll need to decide if the extra performance is worth it. A first gen i7 (three digit model number) I think makes no sense at all in today's market, (and isn't really available new any more) since it's slower than an i5-2500, and probably much more expensive, if you can even find them.

Jman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2012, 05:36:22 AM »

Quote from: JPorto on February 13, 2012, 12:03:53 PM

Jman,
Have you done any video work specifically with the hacked GH2 on your new system? Your photos are top notch btw, man.

My GH2 isn't hacked. I don't do a ton of video, so I have never felt the need to hack it. I also haven't edited video yet on my new machine yet, though I did transcode several films that I ripped from Blu-ray yesterday. The transcoding was about 4 times faster than on my old Core 2 Duo, averaging about 75 fps. (so, completing a 2.5 hour film in around 45 minutes)

tamoio · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:33:51 PM »

Quote from: Jman on February 14, 2012, 05:33:43 AM

Please note that the i7 that Tamoio used in his build is a first generation i7. The second generation (sandy bridge) i5 is generally faster than the older i7.

This is a comparison with Tamoio's chip (in light blue) with the Core i5 2500K (in black): http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/99?vs=288

The i5 is faster in about 80% of the benchmarks, include some of the video processing benchmarks, with the i7 only beating it out in things like second pass x264 encoding (though the i5 is faster on first pass).

So, again...look at your budget. If you don't want to spend a lot...get a current i5 (four digit model number)...you'll spend a lot less money and get very comparable performance. A second gen i7 (four digit model number) will be faster, but cost a fair amount more. You'll need to decide if the extra performance is worth it. A first gen i7 (three digit model number) I think makes no sense at all in today's market, (and isn't really available new any more) since it's slower than an i5-2500, and probably much more expensive, if you can even find them.

My point being that at the time I did my build I bought the processor that had the best performance I could find at the time within my budget. It still performs very very well, and if you want to stay in the hunt for more than 6 months that should be a consideration. The processor was the single most expensive component in the build, distant second was the Adobe approved Nvidia card which would support MPE and then the RAM. Its basically a gamer build.

Gamer builds are actually pretty capable systems but buying used components can be a minefield since gamers are so fond of overclocking and such. I bought the mobo on that system second hand ($80) and I've never had a single issue with it.

The only big problem with some of these systems from a working standpoint is noise. If you want to do sound mixes fan-noise is more than annoying. There are some high-end cooling enclosures that are soundproof, but I think someday I will build a audio workstation in a form factor that will fit into a mini fridge along with the cerveja.

Jman · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:53:19 PM »

Oh absolutely...Your machine is still a speed demon, and I think the fact that your machine still performs very close to the next generation of processors shows that.

I think, though, it's important to consider performance per price, and while some people might need the absolute fastest thing they can get (and JPorto might be), if you just want a fast machine without breaking the bank, you can get VERY close to top of the line performance for a fair amount less.

Both the i5 2500K and i7 2600K overclock like mad, too, so if you want to, you should easily be able to hit 4.2-4.5 GHz with a good cooler (more if you really tweak the heck out of it).

If you don't overclock, the stock HSF on the i5 is very quiet...my machine is barely above a whisper (except when gaming, as my video card fan can be pretty loud when running at full load).

voyager · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2012, 11:07:08 PM »

Get a Mac, of course!

JPorto · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2012, 02:55:51 AM »

Quote from: voyager on February 19, 2012, 11:07:08 PM

Get a Mac, of course!

I do own a Mac pro. I was looking to add a pc to the mix. However, still doing price comparisons and may just end up going dual boot and get a cinema display.

lisandra · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2012, 06:08:06 PM »

Sandy bridge I7 of 5, as much RAM as you can afford, and ssd's are worth twice their weight in gold

tamoio · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2012, 03:50:16 PM »

These guys are sorta on top of things:

http://ppbm5.com/Benchmark5-4.html

. . .not an i5 on the list.

lisandra · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2012, 04:55:13 PM »

Quote from: tamoio on March 14, 2012, 03:50:16 PM

These guys are sorta on top of things:

http://ppbm5.com/Benchmark5-4.html

. . .not an i5 on the list.

cool. If you notice, the top three use insane 10,000 rpm hdds. From experience the cooling those require are something serious, and their life is still not that good. And yeah the older gen i7s (the ones that have 3 digits in their names) appear to perform a bit better (they do, but mainly because theres 2 more physical cores) but whats not there is that they are far less durable and less efficient overall. Sandy bridge i7s (the ones with 4 digits) will outlast the previous generation by a factor of 4 (as stated by intel themselves) due to a much better task management and heating management.
Graphics cards is another thing to look at, a subject of very heated debate indeed, so ill keep it short. The 580gtx (from nvidia) is the best and fastest graphics card out there (well, technically is the 590) but people will argue for hours its not. SO on that chart TO ME the best option is number 7 for performance and durability (i live in 95 degree weather, a 10,000 rpm disk doesnt last a year). SSDs produce almost no heat, and last gens i7s manage tasks better.
It doesnt matter anyway. Premiere benefits more from RAM than anything else (and 64 bits).

tamoio · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2012, 05:42:15 PM »

Quote from: lisandra on March 14, 2012, 04:55:13 PM

Quote from: tamoio on March 14, 2012, 03:50:16 PM
These guys are sorta on top of things:

http://ppbm5.com/Benchmark5-4.html

. . .not an i5 on the list.
cool. If you notice, the top three use insane 10,000 rpm hdds. From experience the cooling those require are something serious, and their life is still not that good. And yeah the older gen i7s (the ones that have 3 digits in their names) appear to perform a bit better (they do, but mainly because theres 2 more physical cores) but whats not there is that they are far less durable and less efficient overall. Sandy bridge i7s (the ones with 4 digits) will outlast the previous generation by a factor of 4 (as stated by intel themselves) due to a much better task management and heating management.
Graphics cards is another thing to look at, a subject of very heated debate indeed, so ill keep it short. The 580gtx (from nvidia) is the best and fastest graphics card out there (well, technically is the 590) but people will argue for hours its not. SO on that chart TO ME the best option is number 7 for performance and durability (i live in 95 degree weather, a 10,000 rpm disk doesnt last a year). SSDs produce almost no heat, and last gens i7s manage tasks better.
It doesnt matter anyway. Premiere benefits more from RAM than anything else (and 64 bits).

That chart is actually old. There are newer results here: http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php

I only looked at this stuff because this laptop (that I type these words with) is dieing, so I thought: yeah, I will replace it with something I can do rough-edits in the field in PP5.5 with. The fastest laptop on the benchmark I think is an overclocked Lenovo and then maybe a Sager and an ASUS, all down around #350. The main hurdle for laptops is the GPU, Adobe doesn't currently support MPE with very many nVidia mobile cards, but there is a hack. . .

I've also thought about upgrading the I7 975 3.33 while I could still get $400 or $500 for it, but I don't think I would see too much performance increase with going to a 980x. I would need to change mobo (and who-knows what else) to go to a 3930K and everyone is still overclocking on those to get the really high performance.

I overclock not.

lisandra · « **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2012, 08:22:29 PM »

Quote from: tamoio on March 14, 2012, 05:42:15 PM

Quote from: lisandra on March 14, 2012, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: tamoio on March 14, 2012, 03:50:16 PM
These guys are sorta on top of things:

http://ppbm5.com/Benchmark5-4.html

. . .not an i5 on the list.
cool. If you notice, the top three use insane 10,000 rpm hdds. From experience the cooling those require are something serious, and their life is still not that good. And yeah the older gen i7s (the ones that have 3 digits in their names) appear to perform a bit better (they do, but mainly because theres 2 more physical cores) but whats not there is that they are far less durable and less efficient overall. Sandy bridge i7s (the ones with 4 digits) will outlast the previous generation by a factor of 4 (as stated by intel themselves) due to a much better task management and heating management.
Graphics cards is another thing to look at, a subject of very heated debate indeed, so ill keep it short. The 580gtx (from nvidia) is the best and fastest graphics card out there (well, technically is the 590) but people will argue for hours its not. SO on that chart TO ME the best option is number 7 for performance and durability (i live in 95 degree weather, a 10,000 rpm disk doesnt last a year). SSDs produce almost no heat, and last gens i7s manage tasks better.
It doesnt matter anyway. Premiere benefits more from RAM than anything else (and 64 bits).

That chart is actually old. There are newer results here: http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php

I only looked at this stuff because this laptop (that I type these words with) is dieing, so I thought: yeah, I will replace it with something I can do rough-edits in the field in PP5.5 with. The fastest laptop on the benchmark I think is an overclocked Lenovo and then maybe a Sager and an ASUS, all down around #350. The main hurdle for laptops is the GPU, Adobe doesn't currently support MPE with very many nVidia mobile cards, but there is a hack. . .

I've also thought about upgrading the I7 975 3.33 while I could still get $400 or $500 for it, but I don't think I would see too much performance increase with going to a 980x. I would need to change mobo (and who-knows what else) to go to a 3930K and everyone is still overclocking on those to get the really high performance.

I overclock not.

Why not overclock?? second gen i5/7s can really take it, and the way the handle things theyre not overclocked all the time like before. Heck, you can overclock it yourself in the start up menu. If youre using premiere, a cuda card is the way to go

E-M5 Pete · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2012, 06:47:52 AM »

What is the best software to Overclock an M430 i5 2.27ghz 4 core CPU on a Laptop... Sounds like a way to Upgrade my Laptop that had a new OEM motherboard installed (original was slowly dieing... and was still under warranty.

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