collapse

Have you considered registering for an account on the forum? Many benefits await!


Author Topic: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation  (Read 1395 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rhodes

  • Pre-orderer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« on: July 24, 2010, 09:05:43 PM »
Hi guys, probably an easy shot to dial in for most of you buy I'm having trouble with it. I've been playing around for a few days in different lighting situations just to get the hang of things. This is from my driveway so I can try again day after day.

As you can see the sky is blown out, where the trees stop the ocean begins and there is a dock with a few cruise ships there that are seen with the naked eye no problem.  How can I get the ocean into view without zooming? Thanks for any help.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 09:08:39 PM by Rhodes »

Offline cosinaphile

  • E-P3
  • *
  • Posts: 5746
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2010, 09:22:32 PM »
try lowering exposure with exposure comp to expose for the highlights correctly and then recovering the info in a post proc program for the areas rendered too dark 

Online adash

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 6570
  • E-P1 & film fanatic & Olympus fanboy
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2010, 11:20:19 PM »
Seems you will have to make at least three exposures bracket and combine either manually or with a software of some kind. Try three shots one stop from each other. There is another way - a graduated ND, which when used correctly will underexpose the skies and the dock, but play no role for the foreground objects. It may however be a pain in the ass to use a graduated ND with the kit lens, since you will have to recompose and refocus a thousand times.
I think peterb666 does a lot of graduated ND pics, may be he can give some more specific advices here.
If you like the forum, or if you received a helpful tip here, why not donate a dollar or two to help us pay for its hosting?

Speak up now, because tomorrow there might be nobody left to hear you!

Ian Tindale

  • Guest
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 01:21:44 AM »
Digital sensors are simply not good at this sort of dynamic range, black and white negative film or colour negative film (C41) is far better at it. Slide film (E6) is notoriously hard to expose for, and in this respect it resembles the sort of difficulty that digital sensors present.

People who shoot slide film make metering decisions regarding which part of the curve they want to prioritise, as you can’t have it all. Grads are a very useful tool in such a situation. This particular scene fits perfectly, as you can effectively divide the picture in half vertically — it has a top half which suits a certain tonal range, and a bottom half which suits a completely different tonal range. In real life, your eye is darting around and accustomising itself to the highly local areas of a scene, making it seem like your eye can see the whole tonal range at once, and it can’t, but we patch it all together as if we can. The camera, of course, has to see the whole tonal range at once, and it can’t.

On my D50, which I shoot in raw, I use the grad filter tool in Lightroom a lot, as the raw image does have a touch bit more latitude than slide film has, but even so it’s pretty easy to see the limitation of a digital sensor under such circumstances.

This, incidentally, is precisely why misguided photographers go down the HDR route. Don’t be tempted. Your pictures will end up rubbish. HDR is a mistake. Selective metering and grad filters are a better direction. By all means take more than one shot of a scene — exposed for the sky half and exposed for the foreground half, and layer them together as if you were using a grad filter, but there’s no need to get so precise at this that you compensate for every little area in both dimensions around every tiny detail and every tonal field. You end up with the laughable HDR mistake of processing the high frequencies out of the shot, and the result looks like it’s been processed with a visual low-pass filter. Or in other words, it looks like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of…

Offline Centauri27

  • E-P3
  • *
  • Posts: 1449
  • E-P1, FL-14, FL-36R, 20mm, 45mm, 9-18mm, 14-150mm
    • View Profile
    • My SmugMug
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 12:22:58 PM »
Rubbish or not, I'd recommend trying the HDR route first, rather than spending big money on ND gradient filters that you seldom use. You may end up pleasantly surprised. If worse comes to worse, just toss the picture if the results are bad. You should be able to find free or low cost utilities to experiment with HDR. Some even do a decent job of "pseudo HDR" (where only a single image is used). It all depends on how fussy you are about the results.

Offline mikmas101

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • Flikr pages
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 04:43:17 PM »
where the trees stop the ocean begins and there is a dock with a few cruise ships there that are seen with the naked eye no problem.  [

I have real difficulty fitting the ocean and cruise liners into this perspective - particularly with the mountain range closing the horizon immediately after the tree belt.

Can you post another shot exposed for the sky?
Some of my snaps are on Flickr 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikmas101

If you enjoy your visits to E-P1.net why not donate a dollar or two to help Voyager foot the bill?

Offline peterb666

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1130
    • View Profile
    • PeterB Photography Blog
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 06:36:29 PM »
There are only 3 ways of dealing with this type of scene.

1. Graduated ND filters. A 2 or 3 stopper is required. As the horizon is fairy straight, a 2 stop hard graduation ND would be about right.

2. Bracket the exposures and use tone mapping with HDR. Stick to the 'natural' or 'photorealistic' settings. You will need 3 shots of at least correct exposure and plus and minus 1 stop but probably a 5 exposure grouping with 1 stop between each may be even better. Note that some software allows you to fuse images - like HDR but with no attempt to exaggerate the dynamic range. This sort of thing achieves the same as HDR when used with restraint.

3. Take 2 images. The first correctly exosed for the foreground and the second correctly exposed for the sky. Blend them using layers within your photo editing program. This is probably the most difficult method but with skill would bring about the best result. Me - I haven't got those skills yet.

I personally would get the GND out and also bracket just in case I wanted to fix it later with HDR or exposure fusion.

Good luck.
Be nice to each other, life is too short for anything else.

Offline diesel604

  • E-P1 Fanatic
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 08:31:28 PM »
peter's 3 suggestions are exactly the options I would have considered  :)

for me:

1.  GND for the hardware fix
2.  Exposure #1 for sky and Exposure #2 for the darker section and blend exposures via layers for the software fix


Offline Rhodes

  • Pre-orderer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 08:29:39 AM »
Thanks for the info guys, I have not gotten into/learned about all the filters yet, but 2 exposures makes so much sense duh, I didnt even think of that.

Will try again and post up results.

Offline mikmas101

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • Flikr pages
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 09:45:12 AM »
I have to say that based on the pic that's posted I don't see the need for complicated fixes just yet.

The image above has been exposed for the foreground - which is very clearly in shadow (probably cloud). The sunlit middle distance, horizon and sky are overexposed because of this. I would certainly wait for a moment when the land is equally lit before deciding what corrective filters or layered exposures might be needed. You might also want to check what the meter setting is on the camera that's causing it to expose for the darkest area of the subject
Some of my snaps are on Flickr 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikmas101

If you enjoy your visits to E-P1.net why not donate a dollar or two to help Voyager foot the bill?

Offline leeks

  • E-P1 Fanatic
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 12:01:27 AM »
so noob question.

when you experts says bracket, i supposed it means 3 shots, -0.3 0.0 and +0.3.
and would this mean i need a trippod for these three shots?

Offline peterb666

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1130
    • View Profile
    • PeterB Photography Blog
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 02:53:28 AM »
so noob question.

when you experts says bracket, i supposed it means 3 shots, -0.3 0.0 and +0.3.
and would this mean i need a trippod for these three shots?

Normally you would bracket at-1, 0 and +1.  One-third a stop either way won't do any good. Depending on the scene, you may need more shots, adding 1-stop more on either side. A tripod is essential.
Be nice to each other, life is too short for anything else.

Offline diesel604

  • E-P1 Fanatic
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 12:55:55 PM »
I saw this on another fourthirds forum, worth a try. 

Shoot and expose for the highlights.  Edit the jpeg in camera.

I think all the E-PX bodies have the "shadow adjustment" option for jpeg editing right?

Run the shadow adjustment on the image to brighten up the darker areas. 
Run it again on the adjusted image to bring up the dark areas again... keep doing it until you like what you see. 

Please note that doing this will increase the noise in your image - keep adjusting according to your taste.

[D]

Offline Solo-p

  • Obsessed
  • *
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2010, 04:59:33 PM »
it looks like theres a HUGE mountain behind us or the whole  village could be stepped on by a giant foot!

Offline lisandra

  • Sharpness queen
  • E-P3
  • *
  • Posts: 5244
  • go out and shoot...NOW!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Very new, having a hard time with this lighting situation
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 11:51:29 PM »
Shoot raw and expose for the sky. Then dial in a bit of overcomp. In PP you should be able to recover most of the shadow info and tone down the highlights a bit. Thats if you don't wanna go the other routes presented, which are great.
More megapixels don't necessarily mean more resolution...

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
4 Replies
598 Views
Last post November 07, 2009, 11:11:36 AM
by joebee
3 Replies
547 Views
Last post March 25, 2010, 12:07:10 PM
by voyager
4 Replies
672 Views
Last post June 07, 2010, 06:04:41 PM
by voyager
2 Replies
381 Views
Last post June 15, 2010, 11:31:36 PM
by voyager
13 Replies
2113 Views
Last post March 15, 2011, 07:20:45 PM
by voyager


Recent Topics

All Yellow ! by asterinex
[Today at 07:46:43 AM]


Post your milestones! by cosinaphile
[Today at 07:11:03 AM]


MOVED: Your "professional M43 photographer" intro photo! by E-M5 Pete
[Today at 07:06:34 AM]


New Olympus E-P5 by cosinaphile
[Today at 06:59:05 AM]


Make your iPhone rival the Fuji X100! by cosinaphile
[Today at 06:54:44 AM]


Who still owns a white E-P1? by cosinaphile
[Today at 06:53:24 AM]


reptiles by cosinaphile
[Today at 06:52:25 AM]


Sagrada Familia in Barcelona by lisandra
[Today at 06:48:01 AM]


Your "professional M43 photographer" intro photo! by Helgen X
[Today at 06:28:52 AM]


Who still owns an E-P1? by Helgen X
[Today at 06:05:17 AM]


Heavy to hold by cosinaphile
[Yesterday at 11:41:27 PM]


A windy day at the beach by cosinaphile
[Yesterday at 11:39:40 PM]


Rushing Mighy Water by Blaufeld
[Yesterday at 10:57:34 PM]


Surrounded by White by Blaufeld
[Yesterday at 10:54:41 PM]


The Lighthouse by Blaufeld
[Yesterday at 10:52:22 PM]


* Recent Gallery

Caterpillar Invasion

Views: 19
Posted by: Chill
in: Olympus E-P1
The Lighthouse

Views: 28
Posted by: Chill
in: Olympus E-P1
Playin' Hookey

Views: 34
Posted by: Chill
in: Olympus E-P1
Felipe

Views: 24
Posted by: Chill
in: Olympus E-P1


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal